Surnaming
A while ago, following this display of progressive parenting, I wrote,
A quip that resulted in some rumblings on the topic of marriage and shared surnames, or the lack thereof. In the comments, Steve E noted,
And Ray added,
As I said at the time, I don’t have strong feelings on the subject, but it occurs to me that not taking your husband’s surname, ostensibly as some Assertion Of Progress And Enlightenment – while retaining what is presumably your father’s surname – does create complications.
For instance, having different surnames can confuse people as to whether you’re married or not, and if so, to whom. And any children with hyphenated surnames – a fashionable statement of the aforementioned Progress And Enlightenment – will then face the issue of what to do when they get married, especially if it’s to someone whose own name is also modishly hyphenated. Do they ditch some of the accumulated names – and if so, which ones? Or do they go for multiply hyphenated surnames, which would very quickly become a bit much?
Say, if Derek Williams and Sarah Anderson get married but retain their own surnames, and their children’s surnames are hyphenated as Anderson-Williams, they may enjoy a sheen of modernity, and perhaps connotations of aristocracy and status. But what happens when little Annie Anderson-Williams grows up and wants to marry James Houghton-Clompington? Do we get a brood of Anderson-Williams-Houghton-Clompingtons?
I’m exaggerating for comic effect, of course. But only slightly.
As a new, supposedly more equitable tradition – at least outside of the Spanish-speaking world – it seems scarcely less prone to complication and trade-offs. When hyphenated offspring come to name their own children – and if they follow the same rules as their hyphenated parents – the whole thing rapidly becomes unworkable, and, at risk of causing offence, names will have to be cut. Lest each child sound like a law firm.
Though I suppose one could take it as a kind of unintended symbolism, a measure of modern progressivism. In that, the problem it allegedly addresses doesn’t seem to be much of a problem for most of those it supposedly oppresses, and the solution offered is somewhat short-sighted and soon results in something close to absurdity.
In the original thread, pst314 added,
Also, among gay couples. Though gay couples tend not to result in children, thereby sidestepping the issue of escalating hyphenation and a society-wide overhaul of stationery, due to the need to enlarge the ‘print name’ and ‘signature’ boxes on every official form.
What brought to mind the above was this:
1) A family is a unit and should all share the same name, however that’s decided. You could choose the mother’s name or you could choose a random name, I guess, but they need to share a common name.
2) There’s a strong case that you really want to throw dads a bone with respect… https://t.co/xjCFIctVop
— wanye (@wanyeburkett) April 22, 2024
And subsequently, this:
Anytime I hear somebody say within earshot of a new father anything that sounds even remotely like, “he doesn’t really look like him, more takes after his mom” I’m filled with the sense that we have lost touch with some very basic and important loadbearing structures.
— wanye (@wanyeburkett) April 22, 2024
According to Finnegans Take, above, “equality requires sacrifice,” and it’s “honestly insane” that the husband and father’s surname is commonly the one taken. A convention that is, we’re told, “obviously misogynistic” and “obviously a practice to move away from.” “I’m proud to say my child will be taking her mother’s name,” he adds. Which, while aired in overheated terms, at least avoids the Looming Hyphenation Crisis.
Though I’m not sure why pride should be a factor, or why perpetuating the mother’s surname – but not the father’s – should be construed as any more equal, or somehow more fair.
Update, via the comments:
In the Atlantic article that prompted the exchange embedded above, its author, Michael Waters, notes,
This is announced almost mournfully, and the term “habitual and unconscious” is deployed, much like the claim by Finnegans Take that the matter “gets basically zero attention,” as if people getting married never, ever consider the issue at all. Rather than the possibility that many people do consider the matter, but may simply arrive at conclusions that suit themselves and their families, rather than pleasing an Atlantic columnist whose “constellation of personal obsessions” include “queer history,” and who, inevitably, lives in Brooklyn.
This is followed by the sombre news:
Failed, you hear. Failed. How disappointing you people are.
We’re also told that “the rate at which parents are choosing not to marry has risen dramatically over the past 50 years.” With one quoted sociologist adding, “I think you can say with a very high degree of confidence that unmarried parents are less likely to pass down the father’s last name.”
So there’s that, I guess.
As suggested by Wanye Burkett, above, the mother of the child is generally rather obvious. The identity of the father, however, his connection with the child, is sometimes less so. As a result, some nod of affirmation – or papering over the cracks – may be in order. And given current rates of fatherlessness, and the typically suboptimal consequences, publicly affirming a connection of child and father, or step-father, or adoptive father, doesn’t strike me as an obviously bad thing.
Or, as Mr Burkett puts it,
Again, this is not a subject on which I have strong feelings. I don’t spend my evenings being vexed by it. But it seems to me that the custom isn’t “obviously” without a function, or that it’s “obviously a practice to move away from,” or that its existence is “insane.”
As a footnote of sorts, it may also be tricky to deviate from such a tradition without the risk of that deviation being construed as rather pointed, perhaps even insulting. Not unlike the young, progressive woman, featured here recently, who, at her wedding, didn’t want her father to walk her down the aisle. Because that would look too patriarchal and old-fashioned, and insufficiently progressive. While still expecting him to pay for everything, obviously.
Also, open thread. Share ye links and bicker.
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The elite or aristocrats, whatever we choose to call them, live lives at odds with their stated liberal opinions.
A friend’s brother is a junior assistant associate adjunct professor-in-waiting, or whatever sop title they give to the ones that they’re never going to give tenure. His degree is in linguistics, and he’s fond of snootily dismissing any notions of “correct” grammar or language.
When I asked why, if no particular dialect was any more valid than any other, did he take such pains to ensure his daughter speaks impeccable English rather than ghetto or TikTok slang he had no answer. When I suggested that it was perhaps because he recognizes that like a much better professor, language implies class and he wanted his daughter to have the best possible prospects in life, he became quite flustered.
Oh, by Jiminy! Where are you now, Jiminy Glick? Our nation of over inflated celebrity egos needs you now more than ever! Is there a searchlight or something we can turn on?
Good for you. We need more, much more of this. These people need to be questioned and challenged at every opportunity. That’s not to say you turn a mundane, everyday conversation into an argument but asking these sorts of questions that are hanging there just begging to be asked needs to be done. And encouraged.
That, as they say.
See also this, and links therein:
And,
Not so much educators as saboteurs.
I might add that much of this crab bucket mentality stems from the very, very broad ignorance of economics, especially by most on the left tho many on the right as well, that the world has some sort of static-state amount wealth that everyone must compete for. There’s a similar, though slightly more justifiable perception of status but educated people (in the proper definition of the word) should be able to broaden their scope sufficiently to see the error in that mentality.
The only young women I ever heard described as “cupcakes” were decidedly heterosexual, albeit not necessarily very bright. Usually “little blonde cupcake”. So, by my tortuous reasoning, cupcakes are heteronormative.
So many professors, so little wisdom.
elite double standards: while proclaiming all the woke things, the elite in fact strive to get ahead, send their kids to private school, take pains to live in a safe neighborhood (maybe even gated), save for retirement, stay married, finish school, stay out of jail, don’t get in fistfights, screen their nanny for criminal history,…etc.
Crab bucket: When obamacare came in anyone with good insurance lost it, because getting better insurance than average was “unfair”–my company went to a high-deductible (i.e., $6000 deductible for a couple) plan. Independed workers that had some sort of association insurance lost it. Harrison Bergeron as user manual.
To my mind, that’s all I want. We let the dialog slip from health insurance to health care. This was a huge mistake that I tried to point out to people but because the BS about “preventative” health care that the drug companies and the doctors themselves pushed, every little scrape and bump needed to be (theoretically) covered. Well, by someone anyway. Hence the insane rise in premiums for the people who are actually responsible for themselves. A lot of bureaucrats and administrators get paid now tho.
One might think there is a limited amount of wisdom available to be spread over so many.
That sort of thing isn’t allowed. There can be no dissent from the orthodoxy of the moment.
No, comrade, we just need bigger putty knives.
Well according to the Prime Minister (or wtf they call it) in Australia, there is no dissent. Everyone down there agrees with the orthodoxy and if some billionaire “bloke” dares to think differently, well he must think he’s above the law. Whatever the “law” is as it is being made up by the orthodox.
I am so bloody sick of these b@st@rds. People need to get some backbone and tell them, loudly and forcefully, Go fuck yourself, sunshine. It is going to take a lot of people, many individually, most with no hope of being heard but they must try. it must come from as many sources as possible. These b@st@rds need to be sick of hearing it just as much, much more so in fact, than we are of hearing from them. Conservatives did not fight when they could more easily win. They would not fight because they felt it was too personally costly. They are approaching a moment when they will have to fight against much larger odds with only a precarious chance of survival. Or be totally lazy about it, bunker up and wait for the Gods of the Copybook Headings to fix things for them. Should they live so long to leave the earth to a much more cowardly race of human.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29235625@N04/2777903018
David, while browsing your archives I ran across a bad link: It seems that one of your pages did not get migrated properly.
This link gets a 404 error:
That link can be found on such pages as this one and this one.
The page can be found here on your old site.
If memory serves, there were a dozen or so that didn’t survive the relocation process (which is hardly as smooth and effortless as I’d hoped). I don’t think anything I’m likely to refer to is missing.
So many professors, so little wisdom.
No brush too broad, no paint too thin.
Meanwhile, not to be outdone by Ottawa, Amherst, Massachusetts says, “Hold my Sam Adams.”
The hell you say!
Quite a few countries use Battenberg markings for emergency vehicles, and not just in the Anglosphere.
er…I was referring to the Sacred Rainbow colouring of said Battenburg markings, which made the car look like a clown wig instead of the Inclusiveness they were trying for.
I hereby admit that I did not watch the video, so the actual car in question may have used the yellow and blue Battenburg; all I saw from the still were rainbows galore.
I also may have left a participle dangling…
Well that puts it in a different light!
I didn’t actually see a vehicle in that video, only a talking head, although I admit I fast-forwarded through it.
Yawn. Dangling participles, dancing [blue footed] boobies, I’ve seen it all.
The hell you say!
When equality of outcome is the end objective, outcomes will by nature be lowered to the least common denominator. Feature not a glitch.
I didn’t actually see a vehicle in that video, only a talking head, although I admit I fast-forwarded through it.
OTOH, actually watching the whole thing you would have seen a sardonic comedian tearing into the buffonery.
[ Compiles tomorrow’s Ephemera, slurps coffee. ]
No. Football hooliganism was traditionally more club-based, so hooligans would wear club shirts or designer casual gear, hence the ‘casuals’ tag.
England fans may have been occasionally hooliganistic overseas while wearing England shirts, including St George crosses, but all the fans would be in the same togs, with the same flags.
That’s what happens when you make dishonesty and cognitive dissonance aspirational, markers of status.
Speaking of preening, I’d missed this one:
Presumably, the other victims of the thieves, who were wanted for no fewer than fifteen other burglaries, were deemed of no importance by Ms Lamy. Compared to her pretentious self-admiration, I mean.
We’ve been here before, of course.
THAT.
[ Compiles tomorrow’s Ephemera, slurps coffee. ]
Oh thank God. And tomorrow is my birthday so it makes the Ephemera extra special.
[ Dims lights, passes moisturiser. ]
Well, the cultivated pretence and all the necessary not-noticing of pretty obvious contradictions – between what is announced, often loudly, and how one actually acts – must take a toll. It doesn’t seem very healthy, psychologically. Seems more like a recipe for neuroticism and twitchiness. Forever at risk of being tripped up and rumbled. By someone like Daniel, for instance.
A while ago, I saw a video of some slim and pretty women – out on the town and presumably hoping to attract sexual interest – who were pointedly informing an interviewer that “fat is beautiful,” and very sexy, or words to that effect. These sentiments were oddly unanimous and delivered in a well-rehearsed tone. Photos of some massively obese celebrity bint were then presented to the women, who dutifully applauded this physical accomplishment, this feat of sexiness, albeit in ways that weren’t entirely convincing.
The slim and pretty women were then asked why they avoided becoming fat themselves and why they made considerable efforts – quite apparent efforts – to highlight their own slimness and sexual allure. The subsequent facial expressions were pretty much what you’d imagine.
For horror fans:
https://bitbang.social/@NanoRaptor/112330105842804043
Speaking of preening…
“Hey, hey, ho, ho, I don’t know what has to go!”
Such fearless… er, convictions.
That’s what happens when you make dishonesty and cognitive dissonance aspirational, markers of status
He’s not even a professor. He teaches ESL to the foreign students at one of Canada’s worst universities.
He married his Japanese TA from when he was an undergrad and seems to have adopted the role of White Saviour of all Asian Culture, as he’s also fond of “correcting” people’s “misconceptions” about any Asian country. Because they’re all the same, apparently, and when he starts loudly defending China’s behaviour in the APAC region his wife gets that very strained look around her eyes.
Heh. China is working on taking Japan’s place as most despised Asian country amongst Asian countries.
While true for anywhere the IJA invaded in WW2, Taiwan was governed by a someone who thought that carrot first and stick later if needed was a good idea. IOW, the Taiwanese don’t hate the Japanese more than the mainland Chinese who came over and took over the place since 1949. (I’m neither Taiwanese, Chinese, nor Japanese. My better half is half Chinese and half Japanese and spent quite a few years in Taiwan as an Army brat when her dad was stationed there when we treated the Nationalist government as the true Chinese government.)
China is working on taking Japan’s place as most despised Asian country amongst Asian countries
Most of those countries have grudges with each other that go back longer than Canada has been a country, so I won’t judge. But I have younger friends in Japan who say the mood there is that the Japanese government is very concerned about China’s territorial ambitions. Apparently there is a small chain of islands that historically belong to Japan and China has been saber-rattling about them. They have no strategic importance so it’s probably a form of realpolitik shit test.
There’s also apparently a growing sentiment towards militarism and nationalism in Japan, above and beyond the baseline racial chauvinism. Interesting times.
I used to play closer attention when I worked on a contract for NTT back in the early 90’s. There were a couple of Vietnamese, Pilipino, etc. Americans who worked with me on that who, while young enough to let bygones be bygones (unlike my father…but I digress…), let’s say added some flavor to certain discussions.
Another pretty good work and workout buddy who was Vietnamese, and I found out later 1/4 Chinese, his family was on the receiving end of significant prejudice because of his Chinese grandfather. His older brother got conscripted into VN infantry and was forced to walk point on patrols ahead of “pure” Vietnamese. His father got the family out of there, via the SE Asia boat people route, before my buddy reached military age.
The Chinese historically not having been very navy-ambitious, certainly not relative to Japan, have thus been limited to pissing off only land neighbors. Though sometimes even going to significant lengths in that regard. (cough India cough cough). Now China is flexing its muscles and worrying Japan’s 20th century victims across seas and even oceans and Japan itself. I’m curious how real the militarization of Japan can get. The men in their society have been even more emasculated than ours. It’s an incredibly messy world that we have stepped back from. I was never crazy about our “hegemony” per se. But this stepping back while in a state of quite obvious internal weakness is just begging for a conflagration that could be much, much worse than WWII. Especially when you look at the much greater current and potential fire power, the economic productivity and potential of all parties, the much greater accuracy of all weapons. And that’s putting the nukes aside.
A predecessor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl6si74ZXUs
How I loathe that movie.
“What are you rebelling against, Johnny?”
” Waddaya got?”
Such idiocy. But dare not say so, philistine. The passive acceptance of idiotic crap like that is how we lost the culture war. Greg Gutfeld wrote a good book on the toxicity of cool.
A few points:
There were many occasions when a fellow married the heiress of some grand family which was going extinct in the male line, and took the family name. If there was a title, it would often be recreated for the fellow.
In Russia, and some other Slavic cultures, names have male and female forms. Mr. Pavlov’s wife is Mrs. Pavlova. Which makes things interesting for IT.
In Iceland, the traditional Norse naming system is still used: Bjorn Thorvaldsson’s son Einar is Einar Bjornsson. Which also makes things interesting.
Here in Chicago, it’s believed that having an Irish surname will get an extra 10% to the vote in a judicial primary. (There are a dozen or more every cycle, and hardly anybody knows who the candidates are.) One candidate took his wife’s name, which was actually her previous (divorced) husband’s name, because it was Irish.