Only Looking (2)
And in, er, child-molestation-fantasy news:
A professor of Ethics at Oslo Metropolitan University in Norway has called to legalise AI-generated child pornography, claiming that paedophilia should be seen as an innate sexuality that requires destigmatisation. Ole Martin Moen, a gay man who identifies as “queer,” currently serves as a member of the advisory board on Norway’s Patient Organization for Gender-Incongruence (PKI), a social and political lobby group for trans rights. […]
Moen details arguments for and against “adult-child sex” before ultimately coming to the conclusion that “adult-child sex is not categorically very harmful” but may result in “risks” of children being harmed… Moen also argues that paedophiles who do not sexually abuse children should be “praised” for their “admirable willpower,”
Not raping children – so far, that is – but really, really wanting to and thinking about it a lot – is praiseworthy, you see.
Update, via the comments:
If readers will forgive a little paraphrasing:
Frisky Nonce: “I didn’t utterly ruin a small child’s life today. I wanted to, quite a lot, but I didn’t.”
Woke Academic: “Oh well done. Have a sweet. And some more child-abuse pornography.”
We could, I think, paraphrase a little further:
“I didn’t stab any random passers-by in the face today.”
“Oh well done. Here are some pictures of random people being stabbed in the face.”
Farcical as it sounds, the dynamic is not entirely dissimilar.
Update 2:
Aside from the more bewildering claims – that “the mental state of finding children sexually attractive is very common,” for instance, or that 11-year-olds’ crushes on other 11-year-olds are somehow equivalent to creepy 40-year-old men ogling kiddies – Dr Moen has other odd thoughts. We’re told that “most adult-child sex… does not involve violence or penetration,” merely “cuddling, caressing, and genital fondling,” and that penetration “occurs most commonly when the child is well into adolescence.” So, hey. No biggie.
We’re also told that we mustn’t assume that paedophiles “desire to harm children,” even though their desires, when enacted, via secrecy and deceit, do harm children, often catastrophically, and even though their enacted desire is, by definition, a violation, a betrayal, an act of monstrous selfishness.
“There is no reason to posit intentions to harm, disrespect, or expression of ill will on the part of all or even most paedophiles,” says Dr Moen. This is despite acknowledging that such experiences leave a majority of victims with “psychological disorders… increased likelihood of drug dependence, alcohol dependence, major depression,” etc. And despite the fact that these consequences are very widely understood, at least in simple terms. And despite the fact that many paedophiles have been subjected to similar abuse themselves and therefore know first-hand the likely consequences.
Hence the stigma, of course. The stigma that Dr Moen finds so problematic.
Our educator then entertains the conceit that paedophilia is only harmful to its victims “because of society’s way of viewing and handling sexual contact between adults and children.” As if the only disagreeable aspect of being raped as a child were the subsequent embarrassment. Not the actual, you know, violation.
This, remember, is in the same essay that acknowledges the “psychological disorders” and “major depression” that are frequently the result for children who’ve been sexually assaulted. To say nothing of all the oddly unmentioned consequences that may manifest later in life, including, for some, transgenderism and/or paedophilia, and none of which are generally regarded as life-affirming.
Update 3:
In the comments, Mags quotes Dr Moen’s deep musings:
“Many of us have been paedophiles at one point,” Moen argues, adding “When you were 11, it is not unlikely that you were sexually attracted to prepubertal children.”
She adds,
That’s not paedophilia. Couldn’t he find a dictionary?
Well, quite. And Dr Moen’s readiness to build a rickety argument on the blatant misuse of basic terms – carefully omitting the obvious adult-child power dynamic – does rather cast some doubt on his motives. The attempt to equate the ill-defined crushes of middle-school children with some creepy middle-aged man perving on those same middle-school children is, I think, telling.
We’ve been here before, of course.
Via pst314.
Oh–and by the way, he was a judge. Isn’t that special?
We must normalize STD’s!
To think just a short while ago I was wondering about depraved minds.
However, you are just syphiliticphobic.
Think of all the new stripes on the “pride” flag, pinkish gray for condyloma, neon green for gonorrhea, white wavy line for syphilis, pale yellow green for chancroid, pink with black dots for pediculosis, the possibilities are as myriad as they are glorious.
“We’re here, you see, it burns when we pee, get used to it!”
“What can we do to increase the youth LSMFTWTF+%& community…”
Good question, keep pushing, marketing…
Meanwhile in the marketing department.
We must normalize STD’s!
To think just a short while ago I was wondering about depraved minds.
Not to beat a dead horse (I may have mentioned this before) but I used to know people who had that “normalize STD’s” attitude: They thought that catching an STD was no big deal, because you could “just get a shot” and be cured. Never mind the social aspects of being a slut, what about the medical aspects? I kept trying to get them to understand that bacteria and viruses mutate, that drug-resistant strains are appearing and are only going to get more dangerous, but they refused to listen. They refused to listen even though even serial monogamy outside of marriage is very effective at preventing outbreaks.
There’s a lot to be said for ostracizing certain kinds of people.
I don’t know what differentiates “AI-generated” CP…
That phrase caught my eye as I was scrolling up the page, and the first thought that jumped into my mind was “AI-generated Communist Party”.
Well, some commies have longed for AI as a solution to the knowledge problem that makes socialism so unworkable. (Dream on, fools.) But if we did have an AI-generated CPUSA, it would presumably run on Google’s servers.
normalize STDs: herpes has no cure. If you don’t get treated for syphilis you go blind and then insane. Other stds are very painful and can make you sterile (esp. women). Sure tots normal.
… catching an STD was no big deal, because you could “just get a shot” and be cured…
So no need for masks, even? Or whatever those rubber things are called. [Consults DDG]
OK, so back and sober…well kind of anyway. But I digress…
IMHO giving a legal freebie even on AI created child p0rn is not a solution.
It’s not meant to be a solution. Though see Y. Knot’s comments regarding the Nixon commission. But ask yourself how you are going to enforce such a law? Hugh Heffner and even others before him destroyed any conceivable fundamental basis for prohibition of pornography. See also D.H. Lawrence, etc. in regard to the printed variety. AI, cartoons, drawings, etc. of CP are indeed creepy and a red flag. But in and of themselves, while immoral and disgusting, are not evidence of any direct harm done to a real human being. Pictures of actual, real naked children are however. Well, are in the context of sexualization. The polaroids or whatever of the past and the digital pictures of the present are hard evidence of a crime and possession of such is much easier and more logical to prosecute. Which I now see pst314 addresses…by sidestepping it but I get it.
But to As Darleen comments, we don’t know. Well that’s just it. We don’t. I have seen many explanations for this abhorrent behavior but nothing definitive. One line of reasoning is that the perpetrator was himself a victim of child sex abuse. This would not excuse his (or her) behavior but if true could lead to better prevention. Further, do you see the danger of pre-crime in this reasoning? Similar if a person possesses images of racist or fascist behavior, groups, etc. or even violent images, should the possession of such be itself considered a crime? We have a lot, waaaay too many laws on our books that are ridiculous and unenforceable. The unenforceable nature of many of them water down the power of the law to deal with the real, the concrete, which are far more important.
I suspect WTP would happily change “normal” to “seemingly normal”. Yes. Missed that in my rant yesterday.
I want to be very clear here. I am in no way justifying the moral behavior. But morality is a separate issue from legality. We do agree here, correct?
I am constantly asking myself at what point do people like this professor start being ostracized. When does he start getting spit on or even beaten up when encountered in public? Where is the line? I’m not condoning such but when do people start saying these kind are not welcome here?
Well this. Why not condone ostracizing these people? I would. Though I’m kinda into ostracizing damn near everyone but that’s another story…If professors such as this had to put up with a lot more criticism, I seriously doubt they would have the energy/reason to pursue justifying these greater absurdities. And if society cannot do so on this subject is it any wonder we are chopping the dicks off of our little boys to sew them onto our little girls?
And I see Daniel Ream raises some similar points in regards to the law. And yes, all the AI image generators I know of have to be trained on massive quantities of real images before they can produce anything useful. Which rather brings up other questions about “AI-generated” CP. This would be an interesting point in a lot of regards well beyond this topic. I’ve dropped out of that (approximate) business but depending on the various problems a given AI is trying to solve, how homogenous or heterogeneous the training set is opens its own Pandora’s box of potential issues.
I used to know people who had that “normalize STD’s” attitude: They thought that catching an STD was no big deal, because you could “just get a shot”
Heh. Reminds me of the time a co-worker was relating an old joke many years ago regarding condominiums to wit, “What’s the difference between Gonorrhea and a condominium?” Before he could deliver the punch line, “With shots you can get rid of Gonorrhea” my other co-worker piped up, “I’ve never had a condominium?” This in the presence of most of the ladies on our team. Ridin’ in a Stutz Bearcat, Jim, those were different times….
some commies have longed for AI as a solution to the knowledge problem that makes socialism so unworkable
On a completely unrelated note, I watched the Buck Rogers in the 25th Century pilot the other day for kicks and was jaw-droppingly surprised by how sensible and accurate the depiction of Earth in the “25th century” were. Twiki is Buck’s personal aide. Dr. Theopolis (literally “God of the City”, you magnificent bastards) is one of a group of AIs that collectively run the arcology operations and is the result of multiple generations of AIs programming new AIs. In 1979 the writers predicted generative adversarial networks and robot servants.
“Homosexual”, they are just making crap up as they go along.
Damnit, “Homoflexible”.
I believe the young lady is in fact “queer” in the old sense of the word–strange, odd, abnormal. How could a ten year old think they are bi? What would that even mean to them? And if in fact someone is bi, that does not require clown makeup.
normalize STDs: herpes has no cure.
When I first started having those arguments I’d never heard of herpes (or Hepatitis as an STD) and AIDS was many years away. But there were occasional articles in the news about antibiotic-resistant syphilis and gonorrhea coming from Asia. Somehow those nasty stories made no impression on my onetime friends.
Which I now see pst314 addresses…by sidestepping it but I get it.
Yes, there was just too much to deal with in one or two comments. Thanks for taking it up.
But there were occasional articles in the news about antibiotic-resistant syphilis and gonorrhea coming from Asia. Somehow those nasty stories made no impression on my onetime friends.
Reminds me of a story from many, many years ago…
Hopefully CavScout will not have to worry about this sort of thing in Ukraine.
Cheap Trick are good guys as shown by their obvious enjoyment when playing alongside the great Roy Wood in several memorable YouTube videos.
Buck Rogers in the 25th Century
Speaking of women in tight-fitting costumes……..
He’s an educator, you know.
Hard drive check.
Not raping children – so far, that is – but really, really wanting to and thinking about it a lot – is praiseworthy, you see.
Computer says no.
While I enjoyed Cheap Trick’s music back in the day, they are as reliably left as most others in the entertainment industry.
@WTP, http://baencd.freedoors.org/Books/Grimmer%20Than%20Hell/0743435907__13.htm is a story written by a former lawyer around a world where you have so much knowledge that you cannot enforce all the laws such as those currently on the books. There’s two other stories in the series (and they are available around the above link); not so long ago, I would have claimed his world was more horrible than ours.
Computer says no.
Aside from the more bewildering claims – that “the mental state of finding children sexually attractive is very common,” for instance, or that 13-year-olds’ crushes on other 13-year-olds are somehow equivalent to creepy 40-year-old men ogling kiddies – Dr Moen has other odd thoughts. We’re told that “most adult-child sex… does not involve violence or penetration,” merely “cuddling, caressing, and genital fondling,” and that penetration “occurs most commonly when the child is well into adolescence.” So, hey. No biggie.
We’re also told that we mustn’t assume that paedophiles “desire to harm children,” even though their desires, when enacted, do harm children, often catastrophically, and even though their enacted desire is, by definition, a violation, a betrayal, an act of monstrous selfishness. “There is no reason to posit intentions to harm, disrespect, or expression of ill will on the part of all or even most paedophiles,” says Dr Moen. This is despite acknowledging that such experiences leave a majority of victims with “psychological disorders… increased likelihood of drug dependence, alcohol dependence, major depression,” etc. And despite the fact that these consequences are very widely understood, at least in simple terms. And despite the fact that many paedophiles have been subjected to similar abuse themselves and therefore know first-hand the likely consequences.
Hence the stigma, of course. The stigma that Dr Moen finds so problematic.
Our educator then entertains the conceit that paedophilia is only harmful to its victims “because of society’s way of viewing and handling sexual contact between adults and children.”
The story providing that quote was written in the early 1970s. Time flies when you’re having fun.
While I enjoyed Cheap Trick’s music back in the day, they are as reliably left as most others in the entertainment industry.
Beg to differ. And funny you should mention. While not a huge fanboy, of anybody…though they are the only band I have seen four times…on purpose anyway…damn you Joan Jett…I recall an interview not too long ago, gee wiz, odd that I cannot find it now…where Rick Nielsen expressed some very conservative opinions. Might have been pre-Trump. James Brown aside…and dead…they are about the hardest working band in show business. Rock and roll anyway. Searching now I see interviews where they were asked to play for the GOP in some fashion and made, or the journalist inserted, the usual fascist/nazi dismissive comments. I would say they’re chickenshit little coward conservatives… “conservatives”. Or at least Nielsen is. But that’s pretty much par for the course in entertainment…”entertainment”. Even country music for the most part. Odd that the subject even comes up though.
As for is a story written by a former lawyer around a world where you have so much knowledge that you cannot enforce all the laws such as those currently on the books.
Thanks. But right now my HOA is going through a Kafkaesque nightmare…well as if a collection of people can have nightmares that most of them don’t know about…yet…but likely soon will be paying for. I don’t think I can bear reading fiction regarding the vile scum. This reality, and what it entails/implies, is likely far worse.
WTP: Good luck. 🙁
Our educator then entertains the conceit that paedophilia is only harmful to its victims “because of society’s way of viewing and handling sexual contact between adults and children.”
I used to encounter the claim that it was harmful only because society’s “taboos” led the victims to feel shame–and therefore, removing the taboos would eliminate the shame and hence all the harm.
I assume that the same argument is still being made by the usual bien pensant suspects. (As for evidence to support that claim, the only evidence I can recall being cited were travelers’ tales of primitive or third world societies where they witnessed or learned of such practices. But the credulous Margaret Mead was discredited long ago, and as many other tales have been shown to be fabrications or so distorted as to amount to fabrication. I eventually came to believe that the sorts of people who made these expeditions were highly biased to prefer such societies and were searching for the things that they “found”.)
So, hey. No biggie.
It’s always refreshing to be reminded that we belong to the same species that produced Witchfinder Generals.
That’s really what Moen is, albeit a looking glass variant.
I assume that the same argument is still being made by the usual bien pensant suspects.
As if the only disagreeable aspect of being raped were the subsequent embarrassment. Not the actual, you know, violation.
As if the only disagreeable aspect of being raped were the subsequent embarrassment. Not the actual, you know, violation.
I was never molested, but like most people I have occasionally been manipulated into something that I later regretted. (Crap products sold by clever salespeople, “friends” persuading us to agree to things that benefit them but not us, politicians with more charisma that morals, etc.)
The failure of the “thinking classes” to
understandadmit this is powerful evidence of their moral bankruptcy.This, remember, is in the same essay that acknowledges the “psychological disorders” and “major depression” that are frequently the result for children who’ve been molested. To say nothing of all the oddly unmentioned consequences, including, for some, transgenderism and/or paedophilia, and none of which are generally regarded as life-affirming.
the “psychological disorders” and “major depression” that are frequently the result for children who’ve been molested.
The younger the victim, the greater the trauma. We all know about adults who were permanently affected by a betrayal of some sort, so it is no surprise that children would be even more afffected. And because we are physical beings, a betrayal that involves physical touching has a greater effect.
Children are innocent and need security. They cannot respond to or comprehend sex and should be left alone.
In other news, Gina McCarthy, US climate change guru and former head of EPA under obama, has stated that social media should shut down people who question the gov solutions to climate change–by which I assume she means solar/wind and shutting down oil/gas/coal. Add to this, calls from the Surgeon general to censor people who disagree with the CDC about covid and masks and calls to censor people who say anything about voter fraud and we have a real totalitarian thing brewing. I am only slightly encouraged by the incompetence of these same people.
we have a real totalitarian thing brewing
I wonder if my liberal “friends” will ever notice/admit what is happening. Not optimistic. In answer to Dorothy Thompson’s “Who goes Nazi?” the answer is “nearly all so-called liberals”.
Yeah. Well we’re Dorothy Thompson here today, I would bet she would be all-in on locking up political opponents, squelching free speech, and encouraging any other such fascist behavior. Because, gotta stop them GOP Nazis. The Dunning-Kruger Effect was lost on Dunning…or was it Kruger..bah, probably both.
The Progressive Dorothy Thompsons never recognize the fascistic tendencies of other Progressives. Or at least almost never. My evidence? An example: Note how extremely rare were the liberals who spoke on behalf of James Damore, Jordan Peterson, and others who dared to dissent from leftist dogma.
The Progressive Dorothy Thompsons
Band name.
Marketing says the name is too long. Suggests “Nazi Bints”.
Nazi Bints
Heh. Made me think of the DK’s “Nazi Punks”. Had to look up the lyrics as all I remembered was the…uh…chorus. As I’ve likely run through my allotment of F’s for the month/year, omitting the chorus I find these rather interesting. Of course they were oriented to the hard left but some of this I found amusing today…
Bah…still juvenile lies, BS, and hard leftist dogma but…amusing.
[ Wracks brain for a way to provoke another round of comments. ]
England vs. Italy, an objective comparison.
England, reheated.
I found David’s Lair of Evil.
Our educator then entertains the conceit that paedophilia is only harmful to its victims “because of society’s way of viewing and handling sexual contact between adults and children.” […] I used to encounter the claim that it was harmful only because society’s “taboos” led the victims to feel shame–and therefore, removing the taboos would eliminate the shame and hence all the harm.
If this were true, then adult Afghanis who were subjected to the common Afghan practice of being used as catamites would not demonstrate the characteristic signs of complex PTSD. And yet, they do.
There is ample evidence that early sexualization has permanent effects on a human being’s psyche, and those effects are largely detrimental to what the Western world considers a successful, happy life.
LA “Pride” Show, famous singer gives family friendly performance.
Manson family, maybe.
LA “Pride” Show, famous singer gives family friendly performance.
But don’t dare call it grooming.
Theodore Dalrymple:
“If we know about something that ought not to be, we feel it is unethical simply to ignore it, so we find a way not to know about it.
…
High levels of education are perfectly compatible with, if not actually conducive to, certain kinds of blindness. The educated are often snobs who look down on the uneducated not because of their actual behavior, which like anyone else’s behavior may be good or bad, but ex officio, simply because they are uneducated and do not discuss things in the abstract. Hamlet therefore knows that Polonius will be outraged at being mistaken for a fishmonger; but Hamlet also knows that a fishmonger is more likely to be an honest man than a courtier, if for no other reason than that his livelihood is not likely to survive dishonesty, whereas it is actually a requirement of the courtier that, metaphorically, so many of us have become.“
https://www.takimag.com/article/blind-and-blissful/
I have some sympathy for these people. I went through a period in my life when I was strongly sexually attracted to 12 and 13 year olds. I attempted to act on these feelings several times.
Of course, I was 12 . . .
an objective comparison
A serious omission – no black pudding!
As an aside, when I was a pre-stripling in the 1940s I had a great-aunt who whose husband and son were the local pig stickers so she had a ready supply of blood. I used to see her making black pudding, cooking on the living room fire. It put me off eating it for a long time. When I had grown more sensible years later and actually tried the stuff I suddenly realised the gourmet treat I had missed all those years.
As well as blood, of course, an ample supply of the essential lumps of fat and intestines for the casing.