Preference Expressed
Lifted from the comments, a small point, on suburban versus city living. And those who would prefer that you didn’t have a choice:
I went out on my porch last night and there was a guy milling about in front of my neighbor’s house, sitting on their retaining wall, just, you know, hanging out on somebody else’s property at 11pm.
Freedom from that (and a million related things) is what suburbanites are… https://t.co/O94JKBdBv5
— wanye (@wanyeburkett) May 30, 2024
In the comments, Jacob adds:
Well, yes. Quite.
Not having to guess whether some stranger sitting on your wall at 11pm is a threat, or just someone with an impaired sense of boundaries – and not having to do that regularly – is freeing. Likewise, being able to park your car on the street outside without fretting, routinely, about whether someone may try to steal it, or steal some part of it, or just vandalise it out of moron spite, is similarly non-trivial.
And contra Mr Gifford, a thing one might wish to enjoy.
Update, via the comments:
Mr Gifford, since you ask, is a proponent of the “15-minute city.” He doesn’t much like car ownership, or people having the option of living in the suburbs. He’s also rather disdainful of the fact that some of us would rather not “live closer to all kinds of different people,” a proximity to difference – now there’s a euphemism – that is presented as some kind of unexplained moral imperative.
That some people prefer to have neighbours with broadly compatible values and expectations – say, regarding behaviour, noise, the observation of normal boundaries, things of that kind – seems to vex Mr Gifford. The word “privilege” is deployed in a rumbling kind of way.
A rumbling we’ve heard before, while marvelling at its implications.
Update 2, via the comments:
Regarding Mr Gifford’s enthusiasm for our proximity – that’s coerced proximity – to “all kinds of different people,” MattS notes,
Another non-trivial point, one touched on here, and about which readers may have views somewhat at odds with those of Mr Gifford.
Dicentra adds, not unreasonably,
YOU WILL CARRY THOSE FOUR BAGS OF SHOPPING ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT. OR DIE IN THE ATTEMPT. CITIZEN.
And where, needless to say, you will delight in being surrounded by “all kinds of different people.”
At which point, this came to mind, along with this. And of course this infinitely charming scene. Among many others.
Update 3:
In the comments, Daniel Ream adds,
And if everyone involved has shared values and behavioural expectations – the kind of cultural common ground – and moral common ground – that Mr Gifford would presumably disdain as problematic, as mere “privilege.”
A while ago, I mentioned that for many years a neighbour has had an ‘honesty box’ on a small, home-made stand on the pavement outside their house. Passers-by can help themselves to surplus produce from the owner’s vegetable garden, or small plants, or unwanted toys, or whatever. People leave the suggested, very nominal charge or whatever they deem appropriate.
In a box. That doesn’t get robbed.
Almost every time I pass it, I’m faintly pleased that it exists. It does seem rather symbolic. And it serves as a reminder that I’ve lived in neighbourhoods where such a thing would very promptly be vandalised and thrown into the road, and where delight would be taken in its destruction – and in the misery of its owner.
And the difference between the two scenarios – or between this scene and this one – is not caused by poverty, or indeed “privilege.” It’s about being better people. The kind of people one might, say, prefer as neighbours.
Update 4:
Regarding the reference to better people, EmC replies,
To acknowledge the obvious does have an air of scandalousness. Such is the practised dishonesty of our times. But at risk of being thought “privileged,” or insufficiently egalitarian, I would prefer to walk down the street without someone doing this in order to do this. To me or anyone else.
Outrageous of me, I know.
Mr Gifford doesn’t think you should have a car to worry about. WHY WON’T YOU DO AS YOU’RE TOLD.
Mr Gifford, who is currently fending off dissent on X, brushes against one of the more obvious considerations:
I don’t think he’s saying that approvingly, mind. I’m guessing Mr Gifford thinks we should all want to live “closer to all kinds of different people.” As if it were some moral duty.
Mr. Gifford is hiding a lot of ugly reality, while defaming suburbanites, behind that “all kinds of different people”.
Heh.
Mr. Gifford seems to have a habit of lying. Farther down that thread, he writes:
But lots of people on the left, including “15 minute city” advocates, are indeed calling for measures to make it difficult to impossible to own and use a car. He certainly knows this.
Caution: Heh™ and Indeed™ and Read the Whole Thing™ are trademarks of the Instapundit Corporation.
It did rather remind me of this:
For those who haven’t read the post linked above, there’s plenty to chew on.
Consider how much crime and dysfunction exist because we allow neighborhoods of Matthews to exist.
I’m still processing the fact that Mr Matthews – sorry, Professor Matthews – is still employed to educate teenagers. Busily telling them how it is.
Needless to say, pronouns in bio.
Who in the suburbs has to drive 30-45 minutes for groceries anyway? I live in a very rural county on a rural ranch and I can get to two decent grocery stores in less than 15 minutes. A few more in less than 30, if I ever need to go that far (spoiler, I don’t, unless I’m already going to that small city for something else). I know of people who have to drive more than an hour for groceries — a rancher friend in rural North Dakota, for one — but that’s a very tiny percentage of the population.
I’ve seen it repeatedly in the big city where I used to live. It’s obviously the fault of White Supremacist suburbanites that they found the dumping of thousands of Somalis in a formerly White neighborhood not to their taste. The massive increase in crime and dysfunction was just the miasma of White Supremacy that fleeing Whites leave in their wake. An environmental toxin.
I’m a filthy fascist suburbanite, and there is a supermarket within a 4 minute drive. 12 minutes to a fresh market, which is far better for fresh veggies and meats.
I do know some who live in a far outer suburb who may have to drive 30 minutes, but I’m not sure about that. The only ones I’m sure of are actual rural folks.
[ Checks tomorrow’s Ephemera links one last time. ]
[ Looks at time. Considers gin and tonic. ]
I usually do that when I look at the news not the time.
David, will I need to have a second bottle of booze ready, or will one be enough?
[ Looks at preview. ]
Hey, I’m bringing you the wonders of the world.
[ Retrieves third bottle from cellar. ]
Cue Inigo Montoya.
[ Sips gin and tonic. ]
The mayor of West Hollywood in the previous post was fretting about racialized and gendered spaces and imagining a Utopia where all groups were equally at home, but diversity implies diverse preferences about noise and boundaries in public spaces, and diverse views about how to interact with the passing scene, with strangers, and especially with female strangers.
Leaving aside novelty or tourist value, we all tend to cluster with our own race because it’s nice not to have to deal with racial dynamics and pace MLK we’re all better equipped to judge the content of the character of co-ethnics.
So you can’t have a non-racialized or non-culture-dependent space, you can just put your thumb on the scale about which competing tribes will be allowed to mark the territory and set the tone. Once the dominant tribe has been determined actively or by default, the treatment of women in that space will depend on that tribe’s attitude to ingroup and outgroup women.
That.
Forget slapping – it’s the dearth of smiting.
OK…so here’s the thing with all this f’n shiite…I said this 30-40 years ago when the idea of living in a city actually appealed to me in a conceptual sense…If these bloody morons are bloody serious about creating “livable spaces” such that we don’t need a car and could take public transportation everywhere, why the bloody hell are they so bloody adamant about letting crime run rampant in the cities? The best, most functional cities that exist and have existed in the real world (Tokyo, etc.) have low crime rates. They are clean. Women can even walk the streets drunk with less fear than a sober man in the margins of our blue hell holes. This whole “little cities” crap from them is BS. This needs to be pointed out. Often. By people besides myself. I’m getting real tired of pointing out this bloody obvious BS.
Speaking of public transportation, when I was much younger I naively thought that public transportation was an unalloyed good: Metro train to the airport? Good. Bus lines to suburban shopping malls? Good. And so on. Then I started to notice that these lines brought lots of crime and disorder. Shoplifting, armed robbery, vandalism, mobs of kids “wilding”. Even stereotypically family-friendly venues like State Fairs got damaged by influxes of “urban youths”.
I remember a discussion that at the behest of my parents I agreed to have with the minister of the Methodist church I had previously attended. I tried to explain that the church’s refusal to address and reconcile with scientific realities would eventually lead to its destruction. He told me that I was throwing out the baby with the bathwater. He did have a point. But I told him the church needs to find a way to throw out the bathwater because it’s killing the baby. My fear at the time was that the church would whither and die. Little did I know that the church would ultimately surrender to Satan.
Little did I know that the church would ultimately surrender to Satan.
Not unusual. All religions absorbed and adopted “religious” practices from the cultures they conquered or converted. Christianity is filled with pagan rituals especially the Catholic Church. It could have been predicted that today’s churches would absorb the secular “religion’s” practices. I was baptized into the United Church of Canada. There isn’t a more socialist, political, secular church in Canada. It even has Ministers that don’t believe in God.
Quoth this guy:
What a narcissist. I was raised in the suburbs and I continue to live there BECAUSE I LIKE WHAT SUBURBS OFFER.
Bare ground, for one thing. I can plant what I want (which usually won’t grow, but whatevs), watch it grow, enjoy the company of suburban wildlife, and just have a little garden spot all my own.
Urban landscapes are all hardscape, all the time. City parks may be nice enough, but I don’t have homeless dudes camped in my backyard, and I get to choose what grows next to my house. A rooftop garden or flowerpots on a balcony would not satisfy my desire to grow things. I would find it depressing and artificial.
I can walk to a Latino market. I can walk to a nursery. I can walk to several places, but I don’t because I need to carry lots of stuff, including bags of soil pep and trays of annuals.
If some people want to live in 15-minute cities, then they are welcome to them.
But fantasizing about making everyone walk everywhere while lugging things is stridently ableist. I have a chronic fatigue condition. I can’t put in that kind of effort.
Again, malignant narcissism. Why do we keep churning these people out?
YOU WILL CARRY THOSE FOUR BAGS OF SHOPPING ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT. OR DIE IN THE ATTEMPT. CITIZEN.
And where, needless to say, you will delight in being surrounded by “all kinds of different people.”
[ Post updated. ]
Shiny things, go see.
Mr Gifford’s imagined utopia is also quite ageist.
At one time, I was happy to live in or very near the city centre, among the thrum and hubbub. The endless nearness of other people. When you’re a twenty-something with no children, it’s possible to find amusing – or at least become resigned to – the proximity of noisy taxi ranks and trendy bars, and the 3am liveliness of intoxicated clubbers stumbling home, complete with shrill laughter and sounds of vomiting. To say nothing of the need to be fairly mindful of one’s, er, vibrant and diverse surroundings and any subsequent tribal rivalries.
But that passes. As they form families and have children, and as they age, people generally come to value quite different surroundings. Litter, crowds, noise, and unpredictable behaviour soon lose their charm.
That kind of describes my experience reading this blog every day.
I bring the world to your doorstep, pre-digested.
As it were.
Replace “citizen” with “comrade”. Or with “citoyen” to sound really intellectual.
I remember the dirt, disorder, and gang graffiti. The people with “vibrantly” different ideas of acceptable behavior. The need to be constantly aware of my surroundings, and to be especially cautious after dark. A “delight” that I am very glad to have escaped.
I once heard a folk rock band perform a song about “puking in the heather”. Charming. 🙁
If some people want to live in 15-minute cities, then they are welcome to them.
I saw that movie. It’s called Escape From New York.
Crossed with Terry Gilliam’s Brazil. Etc.
I have lived in large cities, in rural areas, and in the ‘burbs. I can say without hesitation living in the suburbs is by far the best option out of the three.
Suburbs don’t have the excitement and energy that you can get from living in a city, but the reduction in stress from all of the things mentioned in David’s post more than make up for it.
Overcrowding and crime are common in all big cities as is all of the added expenses/fees/taxes for the privilege of existing within the city limits. Age comes wisdom and now I generally avoid the city if I can.
Rural living has some very nice aspects to it, but it really can be difficult living out in the sticks in terms of isolation and access to services.
The suburbs really are the best living option for most people, so Mr. Gifford can kindly suck it.
A simple truth which the very smart Mr Gifford cannot understand.
I optimized the suburban compromise by choosing a home which was conveniently near major highways and within walking distance of interurban trains, a large library, and a supermarket.
A footnote to the post above, re loitering on someone else’s property at 11pm.
Note, the 15-minute city in question is Detroit. Truly a model for western civilisation.
Just not in the sense he thinks.
I lived in Puebla, MX for six months in an upscale area. Everything I needed was within a 20 minute walk from my condo; failing that a $5 Uber could get me to any number of large stores.
I loved it. I understand the appeal. But the only reason it worked is that I lived in a filthy stinking rich area of a filthy stinking rich city, and by comparison even to the residents of the neighbourhood I was filthy stinking rich.
A great many unusual ideas can be made to work if everyone involved is filthy stinking rich. The people who could only afford to live on the outskirts of Puebla a 45 minute drive from anything but a local bodega in houses made of unmortared cinderblock, not so much.
And if everyone involved has shared expectations regarding behaviour, noise, the observation of normal boundaries, etc. The kind of cultural common ground – and moral common ground – that Mr Gifford would disdain as problematic, as mere “privilege.”
[ Added: ]
A while ago, following this rather telling incident, I mentioned that for many years a neighbour has had an ‘honesty box’ on a small, home-made stand on the pavement outside their house. Passers-by can help themselves to surplus produce from the owner’s vegetable garden, or unwanted toys, or whatever. People leave the suggested, very nominal charge, or, for the toys, whatever they deem appropriate.
Almost every time I pass it, I’m faintly pleased that it exists. It does seem rather symbolic. And it serves as a reminder that I’ve lived in neighbourhoods where such a thing would very promptly be vandalised and thrown into the road, and where delight would be taken in its destruction – and in the misery of its owner.
And the difference between the two scenarios – or between the candy-grabbers in the linked video and other, better people – is not caused by poverty.
Exactly this. The wealth in such places is a function of the shared expectations, the high trust, of those environments. Again, and this needs to be shoved in the snotty faces of these leftist scumbags every damn time they bring it up, if you truly want people to live in bright, shiny, Experimental Prototype Communities of Tomorrow, your first priority is to get crime under control. Yet virtually every city that they have run has become a shithole due to rampant crime. Which of course they write off to raaaaaaycism. They need to be confronted on this in no uncertain terms. Stop letting them play the race card.
As for instance, here:
Mr Stafford Smith is by no means some weird outlier. Well, weird, yes – but hardly rare among his ideological peers.
And from the same quoted post:
And it has to be said, a tad insulting.
Tell me you’ve never lived in the suburbs without saying you’ve never lived in the suburbs.
I live in a suburb. I have a large chain grocery store, a large chain drugstore, a multitude of other specialty stores, two banks, three hair salons, a gym, a post office, a cinema, a veterinarian, and several restaurants all within a mile of my front door. There’s at least one of virtually every type retail establishment I’ve ever needed within 5 miles, and if there’s something truly esoteric that I desire there’s always Amazon, Chewy, etc.
Also, if you’re paying $1,000 a month for a car you’re an f’ing idiot. Stop leasing and buy one.
[ Post updated again. ]
You’re not supposed to say that bit out loud, David. 🙂
To acknowledge the obvious does have an air of scandalousness. Such is the practised dishonesty of our times. But at risk of being thought “privileged,” or insufficiently egalitarian, I would prefer to walk down the street without someone doing this in order to do this. To me or anyone else.
Outrageous of me, I know.
[ Post updated yet again. ]
Given his predilection for malicious lying, a category Dave Gifford does not fall into.
Some people are just evil.
And should be permanently removed from society.
And so, our swaggering chap deliberately elbow-checks his victim, so as to have a pretext for his subsequent theatre of indignation. And an excuse – a term I use loosely – for rushing the woman from behind and pushing her into, and onto, the road.
Imagine being inside that head.
Imagine that head living next door.
Or at least get fined $25. But even that is apparently not true. No fine that I could find so far. But should you dare to try to avoid these people by taking a chartered flight, WNBA will (apparently) fine you $500K. How much of any of that is true I don’t know for sure but in the process of looking into this nonsense I actually wasted a few minutes of my precious time here on earth watching the context of that WNBA incident and I gotta say, I’m exhausted. It’s as bad as watching girls’/women’s soccer. Possibly worse because I think I can still sink a few buckets from outside the key and play defense without running around the court like a chicken with its head cut off. People actually pay to watch that?