Elsewhere (132)
Christopher Snowdon on Derby Council and its proposed ‘Tesco Tax’:
A hundred years ago, they would have been in favour of taxing the electricity companies to subsidise the candlestick makers. Forty years ago, they would have been throwing money at British Leyland… And what is the justification for this looting? Essentially it boils down to a rose-tinted nostalgia for high street shopping by reactionaries, protectionists and the kind of people who insist that supermarkets are unpopular despite the fact that they are always full (due to our old friend ‘false consciousness’, no doubt). These are the people who hated Woolworths and HMV until the day they went bust, at which point they tearfully mourned the end of an era.
Simon Cooke on the same:
Seeking to rescue the traditional town centre by this [‘Tesco Tax’] route merely replaces trade with subsidy. The independent retailers and town centres become dependent on the money that flows from the levy. This doesn’t really make those businesses and those centres viable; it merely acts to ossify a failed model. The future for high streets… doesn’t lie with mere shopping but with being places of leisure and pleasure. This probably means fewer shops and smaller centres but it also means a different approach starting from what people want – not defined by opinion polling but rather by what people actually consume.
And Tim Worstall on telling certain politicians to take a running jump:
We’re going to have a law now where a willing purchaser cannot negotiate with a willing supplier to gain 600 calories in return for folding money instead of 400 calories for a smaller amount? What? Here’s how things work in a free and liberal society: you don’t get to decide what we would like to have. We get to decide what we would like to have.
The MP in question, Sarah Wallaston, “formerly a doctor and teacher,” is “now bringing a love of South Devon to Westminster.” And hoping to dictate your default portion size. The state, says Ms Wallaston, has “a duty to intervene” by telling you what it is you “don’t need” when buying drinks and snacks at the local cinema. Because you simply can’t be trusted near those sweet and shiny objects. At which point, I’m reminded of the Guardian’s Jill Filipovic, who also struggles with the concept of personal liberty and, specifically, with why “every socially conscious person” doesn’t agree with her. Being “socially conscious,” so defined, and therefore better than us, doesn’t seem to entail any reservation about spending, or indeed wasting, other people’s earnings on imposing state-dictated portion sizes. Or any reservation about embracing a condescending relationship with those of whom one is supposedly being conscious. Quite the opposite, in fact.
It is, I think, easier to imagine you’re being righteous and heroic if you target the provider of a service rather than the people who choose to seek it out, and who to a very large extent dictate the range of products on offer. But even this manoeuvre implies things that are rarely said directly for fear of how it might seem. To attack consumers directly for in effect making proletarian choices – of which the campaigners disapprove – would jar somewhat with any egalitarian affectations. And so a common strategy is to sideline the customer, and their agency, and insinuate some variation of ‘false consciousness’. The customers, by implication – unlike the campaigners – can’t see through advertising. The customers, unlike the campaigners, don’t know their own minds. Of course saying this explicitly might make the campaigners sound presumptuous and conceited, which they quite often are. And saying it face to face with Those Who Need Saving From Their Own Shopping Lists™ might invite a suitably frank and colourful response.
As usual, feel free to share your own links and snippets in the comments. It’s what these posts are for.
Has it not occurred to these control freaks that it would be a fairly simple matter just to buy two of everything, and virtually impossible to police?
Forty years ago, they would have been throwing money at British Leyland
Ouch.
Has it not occurred to these control freaks that it would be a fairly simple matter just to buy two of everything,
Ah, but aside from the inconvenience, doing so would probably cost more, which is, after all, the intended deterrent effect. Though Ms Wallaston claims such consequences are “not infringing anyone’s liberty.” Oh, and those who disagree with Ms Wallaston “have been duped by lobbyists.”
Vote Tory, get Labour.
You go into the cinema and someone will ask if you want to supersize for an extra 20p – we don’t need that.
I’m so glad these people know what I need.
Rafi, I think Ms Wollaston is just one of those women who doesn’t know how to say ‘No’…
I’m so glad these people know what I need.
Indeed. It’s so good of them to do all that deciding on our behalf, even regarding the size and type of drink or snack we should choose at the cinema. Though the implied relationship between the state (i.e., them) and its citizens may not be to everyone’s taste. Personally I’m not so keen to be treated as a “dupe” by some patrician overclass. And given that politicians are, almost by definition, dubious and untrustworthy, I’m not sure it’s wise to give them even more power, in even more spheres, as if they’d ever stop due to some internal sense of decency.
I quite like this, from the comments at Tim’s ASI piece,
We care about their welfare too, you see.
“….doing so would probably cost more, which is, after all, the intended deterrent effect”.
Of course, that and the inconvenience caused.
But neither of those deterrent effects will prevent people from buying whatever product is being targeted in whatever quantity they wish, nor are they likely to reduce overall consumption. Most of us know this from history, as should Sarah Wallaston and Jill Filipovic; after all, it’s not like it’s a secret that Prohibition was an utter disaster for the US, with detrimental consequences which still reverberate today. Without resorting to that somewhat clichéd Einstein quote, why do these control freaks always think it’s going to be different this time round?
When I go to the local multiplex, I often sit in the upstairs bar before the film starts, sipping coffee while peering down at the main foyer, people-watching. On at least one occasion it’s been more entertaining than the film. But at no point has it occurred to me that the people below – buying hot dogs or nachos or Coke or whatever – should be steered away from choosing the wrong kind of snack in the wrong quantity. It takes a peculiar mindset to consider such things seriously, and it’s not one to encourage among politicians or give any kind of leverage.
Not least because the kinds of personalities that think in those terms eagerly tend not to stop of their own volition. There doesn’t seem to be a point at which the interference becomes objectionable, overbearing or ridiculous. For some, the urge to scold and interfere, to exert some control over other people’s lives, however absurdly, seems compulsive, almost addictive.
The government is not a substitute for mum and dad.
They can have my hot dogs, nachos, and coke when they pry it from my cold, dead, hands.
ps. Tomorrow’s hot dog allocation found its way into your tip jar.
Tomorrow’s hot dog allocation found its way into your tip jar.
I’m saving the nation from unauthorised foodstuffs, one donation at a time.
I normally avoid the overpriced, rather shite snacks on offer in cinemas for the simple reason that only 1 in 10 can organise the staff in sufficient numbers such that a 20 minute wait in a queue is avoided. Many a time I find myself going into the screen room still with the £10 I was quite willing to spend, but not if it involved standing in line to do so.
“I normally avoid the overpriced, rather shite snacks on offer in cinemas for the simple reason that only 1 in 10 can organise the staff in sufficient numbers such that a 20 minute wait in a queue is avoided. Many a time I find myself going into the screen room still with the £10 I was quite willing to spend, but not if it involved standing in line to do so”.
Shhh. Dr. Sarah Wallaston might be listening- you’ll only give her ideas.
I normally avoid the overpriced, rather shite snacks on offer in cinemas for the simple reason that only 1 in 10 can organise the staff in sufficient numbers such that a 20 minute wait in a queue is avoided.
That’s one of the advantages of going early on Sunday morning instead of Saturday night. Much easier to park, shorter queues and (I think) a more civilised audience. Which is the kind of audience you want when you’re watching superheroes punching giant robots.
I dislike the type of snacks and drinks sold in cinemas, so I never buy them.
But it would never have occurred to me that everyone else should be made to follow suit.
Does that mean I’ll never get a job with the Guardian?
Does that mean I’ll never get a job with the Guardian?
She’s a ‘Conservative’ MP who sounds like she writes for the Guardian. Welcome to Cameron’s Britain.
One wonders what sort of upbringing a person like Ms. Wallaston had, such that she is pathologically incapable of tolerating people enjoying themselves. Fortunately for her, she’s a politician. In real life, insufferable scolds like her get punched in the face.
If Ms.Wallaston were sitting at the snack counter scolding customers about their purchases she`d be viewed as a kooky harridan. Now she`s a kooky harridan with power which makes her completely unfit for public office.
Which is why you swing by the bulk candy section of your local confectionery, and stock voluminous jacket pockets with smuggled goodies. Win. Win.
Those Who Need Saving From Their Own Shopping Lists™
Snort. Worth the price of a cinema ticket. *hits tip jar*
stock voluminous jacket pockets with smuggled goodies.
There was a time, as a child, when heavy gorging in a darkened cinema was part of the treat. Now I’d be distracted by having sticky fingers. As it is I’ve been known to grumble about 3D glasses smeared with what appeared to be nacho cheese residue.
Worth the price of a cinema ticket.
I promise to use it wisely. Possibly on Guardians of the Galaxy.
That’s one of the advantages of going early on Sunday morning instead of Saturday night.
Good point. When I lived in Dubai I used to go on Friday mornings, the ME equivalent of Sunday mornings. On several occasions I was utterly alone in the theatre.
in Dubai I used to go on Friday mornings, the ME equivalent of Sunday mornings
It’s a lot less stressful. I’m obsessively punctual so there’s none of the usual parking stress, plenty of time for a drink, even a large one, and finding a good seat doesn’t involve grappling, tear gas or other extreme measures. And even if the place fills up, as it often does for big films, there’s usually a congenial atmosphere. I went to see Avengers Assemble on a Sunday morning and remember seeing a dad accompanying his very excited son, aged maybe six, who was kitted out in Iron Man pyjamas and a full replica helmet.
My usual rules for theater-going:
1) Wait a couple of weeks after the movie has premiered.
2) Order and pick up the tickets with plenty of time to spare.
3) Eat outside the theater before the movie for cheaper and better food.
” I went to see Avengers Assemble on a Sunday morning and remember seeing a dad accompanying his very excited son, aged maybe six, who was kitted out in Iron Man pyjamas and a full replica helmet.”
Awww, bless! And what was the kiddie wearing?
And what was the kiddie wearing?
Ba-dum-tisshhh. It’s so unfair, though. At his age I had to make my own out of cardboard.
“I dislike the type of snacks and drinks sold in cinemas, so I never buy them.”
No stony petrel on a stick for you!
I remember going to see Spiderman in the cinema and a kid of about 5 or 6 rushed into the theatre all excited wearing a spiderman costume…and promptly tripped on a step and fell flat on his face. It would have taken a heart of stone not to laugh, and I confess that I did. He wasn’t hurt though, and got up a second later.
“Humanity is divided into two basic types: those who want to tell others what to do, and those who have no such desire.”
Heinlein, I think.
Quoth Kevin Williams, on the left’s disdain for sticking to the law as written:
And they accuse us of Manichaeism.
Which, I am reminded, is the clearest indication of what they themselves are up to.
Without resorting to that somewhat clichéd Einstein quote, why do these control freaks always think it’s going to be different this time round?
I learned only a few weeks ago that the quote is not from Einstein but from Narcotics Anonymous literature.
Why would they want it to be different? They’re not the ones who suffer the ill effects of their meddling. Having been born later than the Prohibitionists, they’re by definition smarter and more moral.
Einstein got hooked up with. flashlight, on a surfboard. It can get like that, not just politicics, or time space. The math is hard, but doable.
Crazy Horse had the same deal, but that is just thunder, lightning, and whirlwinds.
I do not know why most see what is given; Why woulld anyone buy into that?
Not as bad as it looks, just hearts and minds, and rising blood cults.
It used to be a Stormy Petrel on a stick in my day, not so hard on the teeth. But birds aside, who could go past the treat supreme of an ice cream in a small squarish cone,with a chocolate coating and nuts, deep frozen. Sometimes the ice cream was even Jaffa rather than the ubiquitous vanilla.
I used to go to the theatre for that treat alone, and endure the film for the sake of the taste treat.
As a lad we used to go to the local flea pit and purchase those hard round sweets known locally as “jaffas”, and we could be persuaded to part with one for the pleasure of rolling it down the wooden floor. It would make this sort of muted clattering noise over the floorboards punctuated by regular raps as it went over the steps. Very useful for distraction when the hero got all sloppy and wanted to kiss the heroine. Nothing though matched the feat of one friend who when leaning over the railings upstairs managed to lose the ice cream out his cone and it landed fair smack on someone in the cheap seats head. We were evicted as a group for that, and my friend was more indignant for the loss of his ice cream than he was for the eviction.
Even as a kid, the cinema was wonderful notwithstanding the juvenile delinquency. Saturday mornings were fun, but then you began to appreciate “the pictures” as an art.
My mother was an autodidact; a working-class girl who dabbled in watercolours, who loved the popular classics (Chopin and Mozart were her favourites) and went to evening classes to learn how to make pottery. Her first love was cinema, and she recognised that David Lean was a master.
In Burnley we had an Odeon, a massive Art Deco brick palace with a sweeping double staircase and red plush seats and a screen that seemed as wide as a cricket field.
It must have been sometime around 1970 when they showed “Lawrence Of Arabia” in its full majesty; we went there by bus, Mum bought me a big bag of Butterkist popcorn and….
She had taste, my mum.
About five years later, a whole lot of us from the fourth form (feral dickheads all) went to see “Rollerball” and when we came out I wanted to clothesline the first FS1E rider I saw, and I hadn’t even had a sip of my mates’ cider.
It’s all about portion control and sugar content, isn’t it
Oops-missed off a question mark there.
How I long for the days when someone like this Wallaston creature could be put back in her place with a stern “don’t be so bloody impertinent!” Doctors are a jumped-up caste of middle-class do-gooders high on self-righteousness and misplaced sense of importance. They’re middle-ranking professionals, like quantity surveyors or actuaries, who have elevated themselves to a wholly unmerited status. Time they were taken down a peg.
Reading Ms Wallaston’s tweets, what’s striking is how often she finds disagreement with her incomprehensible. Baffled by people who don’t think as she does, she concludes, based on nothing and in a rather self-flattering way, that her critics have been “duped by lobbyists.” “Health inequality demands action,” says she, and further bloating of the state and mass condescension is apparently the only way to go. “What benefit is there to the supersizing of [drinks and meals]?” she asks, as if the customers for such things needed to present her with agreeable excuses.
The possibility that (for instance) one big drink with two straws might be cheaper than two separate drinks of a size Ms Wallaston approves, and that this might matter to some families on a budget, apparently hasn’t occurred to her. You see, that’s an option “we don’t need.”
The state, says Ms Wallaston, has “a duty to intervene” by telling you what it is you “don’t need” when buying drinks and snacks at the local cinema.
She’s saving us from ourselves by infantilising us.
I don’t think we should be so hard on paternalism per se. It can be benign and helpful, as, for example, when we forbid people to make their own prescriptions for medicines and insist a doctor decides what they need. I think a lot of people are as bad at judging their dietary as their medical needs and the consequences can be just as bad for them (and for the rest of us).
She’s saving us from ourselves by infantilising us.
The ‘electorate-as-livestock’ approach.
As Simon Cooke says here,
Several tweets aimed at Ms Wallaston make similar points, though she seems strangely dismissive of the wider, somewhat troubling implications of her own claims.
It can be benign and helpful, as, for example, when we forbid people to make their own prescriptions for medicines and insist a doctor decides what they need.
One of the benefits of living in Thailand and Russia was *not* having to wait a week or more to see a doctor who would spend 35 seconds scribbling out a prescription for an anti-inflammatory which I’d been prescribed a dozen times before. No, I just walked into a pharmacy and bought a box of it.
I’d just like to register my surprise at Minnow popping up to take the pro-fascism line.
When pressed, Ms Wollaston admits the obvious flaw in her paternalism, i.e., that “there is nothing to stop people buying two packets of something if you really want that volume of extra calories.” This sentence is immediately followed by “but most of us wouldn’t choose to; most of us would go for the default size.” Which, funnily enough, is what already happens now, without any expensive and condescending meddling from people like Ms Wallaston. When you walk into Starbucks or McDonald’s or the local multiplex, you aren’t automatically handed the largest possible portion. Standard, non-supersized portions are already the default serving for most of us just about everywhere, but apparently this isn’t enough for our ambitious busybody and the option to order a larger serving shouldn’t be available at all. Because, says she, “we don’t need” them.
Though it seems she will tolerate the sight of people juggling multiple cups and packages at greater expense and much less convenience than a single supersized measure would have been. So there’s that.
[ Edited. ]
I’d just like to register my surprise at Minnow popping up to take the pro-fascism line.
Defending GPs is pro-fascism? Blimey. Who knew?
[Minnow]:I don’t think we should be so hard on paternalism per se. It can be benign and helpful, as, for example, when we forbid people to make their own prescriptions for medicines and insist a doctor decides what they need. I think a lot of people are as bad at judging their dietary as their medical needs and the consequences can be just as bad for them (and for the rest of us).
Modern medicines are effective and as a consequence also have effects which are dangerous and at times difficult to predict. This is why they are regulated. The effects of excess consumption of food have been long known and have long been the subject of opprobrium (gluttony has been a deadly sin for a long time). The conflation of moralising with medicines’ safety by Minnow is disingenuous to say the least (but hardly a surprise).
Doctors as moralists are usually laughable as we carry the same vices as our patients, often with a side order of condescension. Doctors as politicians are particularly off-putting. Sarah Wollaston seems haughty and dismissive, as was David Owen. Evan Harris was just creepy.
[Minnow]: Defending GPs is pro-fascism? Blimey. Who knew?
You are not “defending GPs” you are defending a particularly illiberal politician who happens to be medically qualifying. Stop lying. Again.
Giving your support to measures which intrudes the State into parts of our lives where it has neither the competence nor the right to intrude (i.e. Food portion size outside of wartime or similar emergencies) could be described as pro-fascist, yes, Minnow.
Note to David: prepare the servers for at least a three-pager.
Doctors as moralists are usually laughable as we carry the same vices as our patients, often with a side order of condescension.
Reminded me of this. A couple of years ago I went to my NHS GP for a tetanus shot after an (accidental) dog bite. My usual GP, a charming woman and not discernibly fascistic, was on holiday and so I saw one of her colleagues instead. At some point out of mild curiosity I asked what my blood type was, the details of which were somewhere in my file. I was rather caught off guard by the doctor’s casual refusal to tell me. He said that if I “really” wanted to know I should travel across town to give blood. Apparently he didn’t think that patients – his customers – needed to know such details. Details concerning the contents of their own bodies.
Pushed for time, I didn’t press the point, beyond raising an eyebrow and suggesting that his attitude on the matter was a tad inappropriate.
Medically ***qualified***
Pushed for time, I didn’t press the point, beyond raising an eyebrow and suggesting that his attitude on the matter was a tad inappropriate
I don’t think I’d have been so restrained. Your body, your results. It’s not like you need to be on the medical register to interpret it in the way you might a biopsy. He sounds like a twat. Sadly lots of them in the profession.