Nineteen Years
And yet, bewilderingly, this place is still here.
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Sordid business, I grant you, but it’s what keeps this place here.
For newcomers wishing to know more about what’s been going on here for nineteen chuffing years, in over 3,500 posts and hundreds of thousands of comments, the Reheated series is a pretty good place to start – in particular, the end-of-year-summaries, which convey the fullest flavour of what it is we do. A sort of blog concentrate. If you like what you find there… well, there’s lots more of that.
Do take a moment to poke through the discussion threads too. The posts are intended as starting points, not full stops, and the comments are where much of the good stuff is waiting to be found. And do please join in.
As always, thanks for the support, the comments, and the company.
Consider this an open thread. Share ye links and bicker.
Update, via the comments:
Liz directs us to a Guardian article, adding, not unreasonably,
Indeed, the article in question, by Ms Sangeeta Pillai, “a writer, podcaster and feminist activist” who “grew up in a Mumbai slum,” is, one might say, an example of concentrated Guardian. By which I mean, contrived to the point of being perverse. As readers may deduce from the headline:
In what follows, Ms Pillai informs us of how she is “exhausted by the pointless stream of politeness” – say, when buying coffee. “I now find myself saying thank you at least 10 times a day and sometimes many more,” says she.
And so, we arrive at the framing of routine courtesy – thanking a shop assistant for being helpful, or a waiter for bringing your meal, drinks, etc – as “incessant ‘thank you’ culture.” Something to be dispensed with – banned, even. Because that normal social lubricant – acknowledging others in a tiny but agreeable way – is just too much effort, apparently. Exhausting, to be precise.
Says Ms Pillai, mockingly,
Well, a few months ago, I was wafting around a department store, searching for some new shirts, but with only a vague idea of what it is I wanted. A young woman took maybe fifteen minutes of her time to help me find exactly what I was looking for, with several pleasing surprises. The idea of not thanking her for her help, her eye, and her ability to decode my half-arsed attempts to describe what I had in mind, strikes me as rude, gratingly so. That the young woman was being paid by an employer was, in context, immaterial.
Yet this is what’s being proposed. Adding specks of grit to normal social interactions. Because everyone wants a working day that’s just that little bit shittier.
Commenter Ccscientist adds,
While Fred the Fourth quotes Robert Heinlein:
And that’s before we get to the wearyingly common phenomenon – not least in the Guardian – of tone-deaf columnists who boast of their immigrant status as if it were a credential, a basis for deference, while lecturing the indigenous on the supposedly profound inadequacies of the country to which they have migrated, and in which they choose to remain. Those allegedly fatiguing customs of civility.
As if that in itself weren’t obnoxious.
And at a time when the coarsening of social interaction, a swell in casual rudeness, due in large part to the behaviour of new arrivals, is very much on the minds of a great many people.
Ooh, lookee. Buttons.
Remember all the conniptions about SCOTUS’ decision (Trump v. United States) that presidents have immunity for their official acts? And how of course Trump was going to immediately make it an “official act” to execute his political enemies?
Perhaps Ms. Pillai would be happier in a coarser, ruder place. Say, India? Just a suggestion.
Random but necessary.
Otherwise known as playing foot-see.
Darleen compares this to getting an autograph from Ray Bradbury.
The written SF world is very different from the Hollywood SF world.
If you gaze long into a meme, the meme also gazes into you. –Nietzsche
If anyone’s getting aroused by this thread, I’m upping the price of the drinks.
As mentioned above, India is an intensely caste-conscious society and the upper castes believe that it is entirely reasonable to abuse the lower castes in ways most societies would consider shocking. The brown invasion of Canada has disabused many of their opinions of the subcontinentals. Much like Arab Muslims, the civility of Indians is in inverse proportion to their prevalence in the population.
Entirely typical, though. At a local Toronto convention several years ago – not even a major one – Bruce Campbell was charging $200 and the lineup was two hours. By contrast you could have played a regulation football game in front of Edward James Olmos’ booth. I got him to sign my BSG 2003 Blu-Ray set and had a lengthy conversation with him about the filming of the series.
I can’t find the link now, but I’ve read articles that allege that A-list actors make more money from selling autographs and merch than they do from acting. Back when this was a cash-only racket, the phrase “dragging multiple Hefty bags stuffed with cash back to their hotel rooms” was a common refrain.
There’s definitely something off with nerds blowing this kind of money on pointless tat.
Truth:
Portland Street Roots
Granted, I’ve never gone to ComicCon … but I’ve been to other conventions in the past and while there were celebs with autographed glossies to buy, the amounts were well within the reach of attendees. Somewhere I have an X-files script with the autographs of the 3 “Lone Gunmen” and it was quite within reason.
In 1997 at Borders Bookstore in Montclair, CA, I stood in line to get Ray Bradbury’s autograph and all it cost me was the price of the new book he released (which I was going to get anyway). I not only got the autograph but had a short, friendly exchange with him that I’ll cherish forever. AND I got a book to read!!… not $400 worth of a photo to hang in the guest bathroom over the toilet.
Yes, they were children of pallor but the more important issue is that we cannot upset the Muslim rapists.
Nor have I. All I know is from what I’ve read and what friends have told me. Even recent Worldcons were too huge for my taste (never mind that they have become “woke”.) If I cannot randomly run into an author and end up spending an hour talking over drinks or lunch, it’s not my sort of event. And the only sort of autograph I would appreciate is the one at the bottom of a personal letter written for pleasure rather than the needs of publicity.
I attended an autograph-signing early in the 2000s with the Weasley Twins, Neville, and Seamus.
$20 a pop is all.
Yes, but this darling monster, this sociopathic brute, was, we’re told, “hurt and angry.” Hence the abduction and robbing and raping. And who here hasn’t abducted some random woman because we were having a bad day?
And he’s black, and therefore terribly oppressed. So bonus points.
Judge Davis, a woman who struggles to formulate a grammatically meaningful sentence, should, of course, be immediately unemployed.
And the creature burned in a pit.
What chafes is not so much the sentence as the bizarre thinking, the absurdly sentimental conceits. Judge Davis bends over backwards – one might say indecently – in order to avoid a task she considers too difficult, too distressing. On grounds that this feral beast has potential to be “an asset to society,” a morally fragrant being, just like thee and me, all past and current indicators notwithstanding.
“No person,” says she, “is beyond rehabilitation.”
One might almost laugh.
RCMP – “We always get our
manfemale”Shatner claims he is an astronaut because he was given “wings”, yes, in much the same way as I became a TWA captain when I was 6.
I think the word is cargo.
That should disqualify her from being a judge.
What a tender, fluffy world these people must imagine. In their heads.
At risk of sounding insufficiently forgiving, it seems to me that when you’re wandering the streets in a ski mask intent on abducting some random woman at gunpoint, and when your criminal record includes illegal possession of a firearm, several brutal assaults, robbery, kidnapping and the violent sodomy of a terrified woman, in a school car park, and when you’re shouting threats and profanities at both the victim and the judge – the judge who’s trying to look for ways to shorten your sentence – well, I think we can assume we’re way past rehabilitation.
We’re in the realm of waste disposal.
The technical term is “self loading baggage”.
Our best and brightest are at it again.
Too true, why I remember clear as day cracking open a carton at lunch at school and lifting them high as we chanted slogans against the communist inspired integration efforts of the day.
Great imaginings from Wolkenkuckucksheim.
Not soon enough.
Dear lord, that’s sad.
I dunno. Why shouldn’t Hamill sell his autograph for an exorbitant price to some dork who’s willing to buy it? One of the most basic principles of economics is that the value of something is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. And if we believe in capitalism, we should approve Hamill profiting by selling something perceived to have value, namely his autograph. Whether or not he needs the money is none of our damned business.
Of course he is.
He advocated severe penalties for the unvaccinated.
Maybe they could be forced to wear little yellow badges, too, Arthur.
Nobody is saying he should be prohibited from doing so.
We’re commenting on the propriety etc. There is more to live than market forces.
The sad to me are the people willing to pay a price for such things. As a celebrity, I could also see setting an exorbitant amount such that people won’t bother you. Autograph seeking is a thing for children. Any adult who seeks or even trades in such a thing is a tell on their pathetic state of adulthood*.
Not sure why but something about baseball autographs popped up on my fb feed recently. A guy had sent several cards to some baseball player to sign. The player sent them all back signed except for one. The story appears to be that these guys pick a year of their series that they will only sign for personal friends and family.
*I discovered, after knowing the guy for a few weeks and even being his partner in a random draw tournament, that a guy I played pool with was had been a relief pitcher for various MLB teams. Had a World Series ring with the Big Red Machine, had led the league in saves one year. Once I was aware and remembered him, I also remembered I probably still had his baseball card somewhere. I dug it out, even put it in my pool cue case. But then the thought of asking him to sign it felt so silly I never did.
He’s free to do it and we’re free to judge him for it.
In the last few years the reputation of judges in the UK has also taken a nosedive, and now the prospect of them deciding anything seems intolerable to many people. It probably started with Brexit and the traitor judges who tried their best to block it. The whole judiciary needs a clear-out.
For a suitable fee, I am prepared to sign baseball cards, napkins and heaving bosoms.
Just sayin’.
[ Awaits avalanche of bosoms. ]
Band name. Obviously.
It’s not just that he is puffin ghimself up, which would be forgivable in an old man, but the tone of the post is completely mean-spirited and condescending.
Always remember your Hollywood idols are just people who are excellent at lying convincingly.
Shatner was never a starship captain, Eastwood was never an old-West gunslinger, Cruise was never a secret agent. They’re all poseurs who receive undue credit for the simple task of emoting convincingly on camera.
This. The celebrity worshipping is bad for everyone. Especially the celebrities themselves. Childhood acting should be extremely regulated and limited. Far more than it has been.
That is the thing particularly given his history of making self-deprecating jokes.
His, and all the others who bought glorified carnival rides, self aggrandizement about their alleged accomplishment is a sad joke considering they barely made it past the Karman line when in 1961 Ham the Chimp went 2.5 times farther and actually had tasks to perform (while also being wired for sound) other than gawk out a window.
We’re commenting on the propriety etc. There is more to life than market forces.
The sad to me are the people willing to pay a price for such things.
He’s free to do it and we’re free to judge him for it.
Good points all, and I don’t disagree with you. I sure as hell would not spend my hard-earned money on an actor’s autograph. But then, I’m not a Star Wars fanboy. For those who are, though . . . again, what’s wrong with them spending their own cash on something that will make them happy?
And another thing: I’ll bet none of us would bat an eyelash if someone charged $700 for a document signed by, say, Abraham Lincoln. People who buy that sort of thing are called “collectors” and are considered respectable. Is it really so different?
I agree people are free to blow their moola on anything, but document signed by a president and a photo of a has-been mediocre actor, yep, huge difference.
Happy to oblige.
I’m no expert, but goodness me.
Like archaeology in the 19th Century, this is a field dominated by amateurs.
A bit so, yes. Kinda what Muldoon said. There is the historical value in something signed by Lincoln, mostly because it very likely is on a greater valued document or correspondence.
This is a very big difference between the world as it was before mass communication of radio, TV, movies, and even modern newspapers with photography, etc. A average 19th century person would find having a president’s signature on an otherwise blank piece of paper mildly interesting at best. Their lives were much more occupied with what was in front of them, in the moment. To seek an autograph would seem an odd thing to ask someone for. Besides, who/how would it be authenticated back in Bunkumville without the popularity of having seen photographic or other reproductions? Thus there are not many (any?) pure “autographs” by Lincoln unless they are attached to some personal letter of historical value. Even if such were to exist, their rarity would be its own historical significance.
The technical term is “astronaut”. You may not like that the definition of astronaut is so trivial, but it is. And before you start banging on about scientific qualifications, I’m going to remind you that sending elementary schoolteachers into space so they could teach classes from LEO wasn’t exactly pushing the boundaries of human knowledge either.
Unlike Perry and the other bints, Shatner has never claimed he was anything but a passenger. He only pointed out the technicality because somebody decided to get in his face about it.
re: autographs: I think most of you are missing a lot of context here. Hamill can charge $700 because he’s Luke freaking Skywalker. The Weasley twins charge $20 because nobody cares about the Weasley twins. Just like nobody cared about Olmos’ autograph and lengthy conversation with an accomplished actor, which I got for $30 CAD. Katee Sackhoff, whose career has been reduced to swapping podcast appearances with other has-beens, is a much bigger fan draw.
As for authors, the autographs are free because again there’s no fan demand. Most genre nerds don’t read, and SF literature has always been a niche ghetto that pays less than a decent insurance desk job. Even best-selling mainstream authors do free autographs at book signings because it’s part of their contract with the publisher. It’s not because anyone will pay for them. Perfect example: I have a personally addressed, signed copy of Bruce Campbell’s biography, which I got for the price of a book. Waited about fifteen minutes in line. At a second-tier Toronto con? $200 and a two hour wait.
Kinda agree regarding the astronaut thing but to be fair to McAuliffe (forgive my spelling in the question…I worked with a girl named McCullough at KSC…on that actual launch akshully…), got this from grok:
For Shatner’s flight (and the prior Bezos crew), reports consistently indicate the passengers underwent about 14 hours of training spread over a few days (typically 2–3 days). This covered:
• Basic flight procedures
• Emergency protocols
• Seat fitting and strapping in
• Capsule familiarization
• Simulations of the experience (e.g., G-forces, zero-gravity briefings)
It was described as “a couple of days” of ground school, demonstrations, and practice, with no extensive physical or technical demands since the vehicle flies itself.
Regarding Christie McCullough: This appears to be a misspelling or variant of Christa McAuliffe (often misremembered or autocorrected as McCullough in some contexts). Christa McAuliffe was the NASA Teacher in Space selected in 1985 for the Space Shuttle Challenger mission (STS-51-L).
Her training was far more intensive:
• Selected in July 1985 from over 11,000 applicants.
• She took a full year-long leave from teaching to train at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston.
• This included thorough medical exams, briefings, simulations, shuttle systems familiarization, and preparation for payload specialist duties (e.g., planned educational lessons from orbit).
• Tragically, the mission ended in disaster shortly after launch on January 28, 1986, so she did not complete the flight.
Blue Origin’s short tourist hops require only brief prep (days/hours), while NASA’s shuttle program (even for civilians like McAuliffe) demanded months to a year of rigorous astronaut-level training due to the complexity, duration, and risks of orbital missions.
In short: Shatner did minimal training (14 hours over a few days), while McAuliffe underwent extensive, year-long professional astronaut preparation. The difference reflects the gap between brief suborbital tourism and full orbital spaceflight.
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Now curious about the real self-loading baggage of a couple of congress critters…brb…
Aaaaannndddd here you go. Garn was at least a former Navy pilot so he had some props…
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Senator Jake Garn (R-Utah) flew as a payload specialist (congressional observer) on Space Shuttle Discovery during mission STS-51-D in April 1985. He was the first sitting member of Congress in space.
His training was relatively abbreviated compared to career astronauts but still substantial for a civilian/payload specialist role on the complex Space Shuttle program:
• Garn, a former Navy pilot and Air Force Reserve colonel with extensive aviation experience (over 10,000 flight hours), had been pushing NASA for a flight since at least 1981.
• He underwent more than 100 hours of training (as reported in contemporary accounts from sources like CQ Almanac).
• This included familiarization with shuttle systems, emergency procedures, simulations (likely in facilities like the one later named after him), medical briefings, and preparation for his role in observing operations and serving as a subject for space adaptation syndrome (motion sickness) experiments.
• Training occurred at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston and other sites, integrated with the crew’s preparations over the months leading up to the flight assignment (finalized around January 1985 for a February/March/April launch window).
Congressman Bill Nelson (D-Florida, later Senator and NASA Administrator) flew as a payload specialist (congressional observer) on Space Shuttle Columbia during mission STS-61-C in January 1986. He was the second sitting member of Congress in space.
His training was similar in nature and scope:
• As chair of the House space subcommittee, Nelson had long advocated for and requested the opportunity; he began formal astronaut training at Johnson Space Center in September 1985.
• This lasted approximately 4 months leading up to the January 12, 1986 launch (training from selection/assignment in 1985 through mission).
• It involved extensive medical and psychological evaluations, shuttle systems familiarization, simulations, zero-gravity training (e.g., aboard NASA’s KC-135 “vomit comet”), and preparation to conduct 12 experiments (including medical ones like the first U.S. stress test on a treadmill in space and protein crystal growth for cancer research).
• Like Garn, he integrated with the professional crew (including pilot Charles Bolden) for integrated simulations and briefings at Houston and Kennedy Space Center sites.
Both Garn and Nelson received payload specialist-level training tailored for non-career astronauts on orbital shuttle missions—far more intensive than brief suborbital tourist flights (e.g., William Shatner’s ~14 hours over a few days) but less than full career astronauts who undergo years of preparation. Their roles were primarily observational and experimental, not piloting or critical operations, though they participated in crew activities and emergency protocols. The training emphasized safety, mission-specific experiments, and adapting to microgravity, reflecting NASA’s approach in the mid-1980s shuttle era for “citizen” participants like politicians.
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And she’s not even a moistened bint lobbing scimitars at prospective kings.
I do have a Glenn Miller autograph in my living room, but that’s because it was my father’s. (Glenn Miller was, at the time, one of the most popular big band musicians. But if you wanted an autograph you had to go to a concert–no fan conventions and such silliness.)
I think she used this to get where she is today.
Yet the scorn puzzles them.
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
If you look at the etymology of the word he is an astronaut. The wings are irrelevant
Heh. Lower-tech versions were being sold to gullible women back in the 60’s and earlier.
Not quite.
To seek an autograph of a stranger would seem odd to someone from the 19th Century. I have my grandmother’s autograph book (she was born in 1889) & the autographs it contains are those of friends and acquaintances.