Young Minds, Fresh Ideas
First, the bad news:
Today’s college students are tomorrow’s attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges. If, for example, a large fraction of college students believe, however incorrectly, that offensive speech is unprotected by the First Amendment, that view will inform the decisions they make as they move into positions of increasing authority later in their careers.
The results [of the survey] are notable for several reasons. First, the fraction of students who view the use of violence as acceptable is extremely high. While percentages in the high teens and 20s are “low” relative to what they could be, it’s important to remember that this question is asking about the acceptability of committing violence in order to silence speech. Any number significantly above zero is concerning… A surprisingly large fraction of students believe it is acceptable to act — including resorting to violence — to shut down expression they consider offensive. And a majority of students appear to want an environment that shields them from being exposed to views they might find offensive.
And in somewhat related news:
Pomona College emailed students Monday night to announce there would be no penalties imposed on Pomona students who were “present and did block access to buildings” during [Heather] Mac Donald’s speech, preventing audience members from getting into the venue or, for those few who made it in earlier, exiting.
Details of the incident, in which Ms Mac Donald had to be escorted off campus by police officers for her own safety, can be found here.
Update:
And because the above isn’t quite bad enough, here’s a video of students informing us that the masked thugs and sociopaths known as Antifa are merely trying to “educate” anyone who disagrees with them. For those who missed it, here they are randomly “educating” some young women.
Well that’s cheered me up.
Well that’s cheered me up.
It’s perhaps worth bearing in mind that a different phrasing of the questions might have elicited different responses. For instance, if the questions framed the respondee, or a speaker they favour, as the person being shouted down or threatened by a mob.
Crumbs of comfort, I know.
Well that’s cheered me up
Focus on the eventual and inevitable sweet release of death. It helps.
I’d be more concerned if any of these protestors looked remotely capable of violence outside of acting in a mob against people they know won’t fight back.
I was out with a schoolfriend a few weeks ago, he joined the paras when he was 18, did a tour of Iraq, and became a mercenary. Not a security contractor, but an out-and-out mercenary. Whereas my Royal Marine friends don’t go into details of what happened during the Afghan and Iraq wars, my friend happily gives me details of how effective he was with a Minimi and what it did to a group of people, or the effect of self-modified shotgun ammo on a car full of what I hope were bad guys. After Iraq he worked doing security for a well-known Russian billionnaire in London, now he runs his own security company. I caught up with him in Paris when he was on a gig guarding a teenage Arabian prince who was here on holiday with a load of his mates. This is someone who is big, strong, experienced and quite ready to dish out unspeakable violence should he feel the need to, or is paid to. He does the dirty work that is sometimes necessary and normal people won’t do.
Now if groups of people like him were talking about using violence on everyone else, I’d be worried. But it’s not, it’s weedy millenials. Sure, they might be able to co-opt the power of the state to do their bidding, but that would only shove a lot of people on the wrong side of the law. These protestors aren’t stupid and they make damned sure they choose their targets carefully and stay well clear of violent thugs like my mate. As he said during the London riots a few years back: “Give me a police helicopter and a thousand rounds of link and we’ll be home in time for din-dins.” He meant it, too. These students have no idea what real violence looks like. Nor do I, thankfully.
Tim Newman, the time has passed that pleasantries were dispensed with. You are quite correct that the millennial dweebs pick their prey, not unlike hyenas. They will nip and weave with their faces covered of course but will certainly cease from these tactics if blokes like your mate landed one on their glass chins. Then of course they will cry foul, aided and abetted by a compliant media and people like the mayor of Berkeley.
They will nip and weave with their faces covered of course but will certainly cease from these tactics if blokes like your mate landed one on their glass chins.
Ah, they’d give him a wide berth soon as they’d look at him. And if he clouted them and they went to court, they’d probably find some rather nasty people showing up at their parents house, perhaps holding up a dead pet. Seriously, there are some horrible people out there willing to do all manner of stuff without blinking. When people start talking about violence, they really don’t know what they’re unleashing.
Young Minds, Fresh Ideas
Quite.
Incidentally, for those who haven’t seen it, the Janice Fiamengo video on Canadian academia is worth watching in full. It’s certainly relevant.
I recall being required to pass tests on the U.S. and state constitutions in order to be able to attend high school in the early ’70s. That’s still the case, and I recall my children receiving pretty good instruction in both, but then they attended a small parochial elementary/middle school which focused on the basics and eschewed most modern educational trends. Still, the civic illiteracy in this country is indeed troubling. I doubt the center will hold much longer.
Of course, what’s especially disconcerting is that the lack of constitutional knowledge will lead to rampant quartering of Redcoats in our homes in violation of the 3rd Amendment. I really don’t want the South Wales Borderers forming a square around my liquor cabinet.
Unfortunately, I do know what real violence looks like, and I think Tim is absolutely right.
Now if groups of people like him were talking about using violence on everyone else,
You do realize that mercenaries who are willing to work for Arab princes and Russian billionaires will just as easily work for a George Soros or any number of mafioso government types. Maybe not your friend but others. Depends on how well you know your friend.
And a majority of students appear to want an environment that shields them from being exposed to views they might find offensive.
Aren’t we due for an extinction level event?
A surprisingly large fraction of students believe it is acceptable to act — including resorting to violence — to shut down expression they consider offensive.
So they’ll all be shouting down the hate preacher at the local mosque?
*crickets*
You do realize that mercenaries who are willing to work for Arab princes and Russian billionaires will just as easily work for a George Soros or any number of mafioso government types.
Absolutely, and they do.
Re: Mercenaries.
That
would be more reassuring if it wasn’t for the facts that
and there are
who are
If the lawmakers and lawyers (and law enforcement officials) stop believing that political violence is wrong and turn a blind eye to Right-thinking People engaging the services of horrible people to dish out unspeakable violence to those guilty of Wrongthink, we are in trouble.
we are in trouble
That.
“Today’s college students are tomorrow’s attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges.”
Mao, or the Khmer Rouge, used to send these people out to the fields to grow rice. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I might agree with something done by Mao or the Khmer Rouge.
Tim Newman,
As he said during the London riots a few years back: “Give me a police helicopter and a thousand rounds of link and we’ll be home in time for din-dins.” He meant it, too.
Napoleon’s “whiff of grapeshot”, eh?
Those willing to visit violence on others for so trivial a reason as a difference of opinion should not be surprised when violence in return is visited on them. Reap what you sow.
we are in trouble
What you mean “we” kimosabe ?
Note that “anti”fa and their ilk only pull off their antics where they know the chance of repercussions will be minimal to nil, note also how quickly they got shut down at Auburn University, conveniently located in a civilized state, where neither the police nor student body at large was going to put up the the idiocy of morons largely imported from Atlanta.
The Khmer Rouge used educated people as fertilizer, not as field workers.
Note that members of the GOP fear speaking out against “anti”fa and their ilk only after someone like Nancy Pelosi forgets which side she’s on, prolly due to having one of her senior-moments where the brain-stem overrode the leftist trained cerebrum, and speaks out against them. Auburn may be doing OK now, but see where Georgia Tech has gone? And have Auburn officials been taking advantage of this opportunity to present/market their university as an island of sanity or are they only reacting on the defensive? I wouldn’t know their situation but I do see where my own beloved UF has failed to speak out against this nonsense in any forceful manner. I also see where UF staff have been inching in the anti-freedom direction. Besides in forums like this, do you hear many serious calls to cut tax payer funding for rogue universities? I will concede THE Evergreen State University. I mean, I’m not totally without hope here, but I don’t see the trend reversing to any serious degree.
Doh…that should read “Note that members of the GOP fear speaking out against “anti”fa and their ilk only doing so after someone like Nancy Pelosi”
I would say that a World run by these idiots would be terrifying, but look at what’s going on now, or 30 years ago, those that would have power are almost always the worst humans on the planet.
. . . aided and abetted by a compliant media and people like the mayor of Berkeley.
????
Um. Do we congratulate you on your posturing, there?
Of course, out here in reality—and additionally in Berkeley, in my case— . . .
we are in trouble
What you mean “we” kimosabe ?
Considerably.
After all, as noted.
I was rather unsurprised to read the several media stories specifically pointing out that the AntiFirstAmendment types stayed away from the Shapiro talk in Berkeley, with specific citing of statements that the local police—Berkeley and Cal and whomever—openly stated intent to particularly seek out and have a conversation with anyone who showed up wearing a mask . . . .
So they’ll all be shouting down the hate preacher at the local mosque?
Something tells me there are complicated exemptions.
“Today’s college students are tomorrow’s attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges.”
And Starbucks baristas. Don’t forget the baristas. By the numbers, probably the most likely path.
Give me a police helicopter and a thousand rounds of link
Never mind the M134s, I’d be happy if the police just started deploying high-pressure firehoses.
As an amateur classicist, one of the things I find fascinating about the escalating antifa riots is how quickly both sides have improvised Roman infantry equipment, although not the tactics. I expect the first side to remember how a shield wall works is going to have a significant advantage.
Don’t forget the baristas.
Ever seen The Unbearable Lightness of Being? In the end, IIRC the guy doing the janitorial work at the end was a bit over qualified for the job. See also, to some extent, Dr. Zhivago.
Again, somewhat related…
Philippe Lemoine, a conservative in academia, explains what’s unpleasant about being a conservative in academia:
There’s more, and Mr Lemoine touches on some themes we were poking at in the previous post. Via Ben Sixsmith.
“Today’s college students are tomorrow’s attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges. ”
No, they are not, they are tomorrow’s embittered failures. The attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges are in the library being quiet.
The attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges are in the library being quiet.
Oremus.
Do we congratulate you on your posturing, there?
Well, we refrain from doing so to you.
Related.
Angus Johnston, by the way, is a history lecturer at CUNY and “an advocate of student activism.”
Not so fresh.
… there is a highly nervous and highly vocal party who are busy creating a bogy; if they persist in throwing the epithet about it may begin to stick. They may one day find that there is a Fascist party which they have provoked. They will, of course, be the chief losers …
In the pen and paper role playing game Paranoia, the deranged computer in charge of everything after the Apocalypse is virulently “anticommunist” according to its own standards. Since no genuine Communism has survived, there is a secret society which is Communist, based on the writings of Groucho Marx… maybe.
The point being that being contrary to Friend Computer (or the active ‘anti’ position of the day) is easiest by being in opposition to an ill-defined opposition.
To brighten your day: https://twitter.com/YouHadOneJ0B/status/909412871532011520
Toddler and dolphin play catch.
lotocoti,
Naturally, the New Statesman and Nation dismissed Waugh’s complaint with a sniff.
Nothing has changed in 80 years, by the looks of it.
The attorneys, teachers, professors, policymakers, legislators, and judges are in the library being quiet.
. . . Once upon a time I read some comment where I have no memory by this point of who or where, but someone had made some proclamation about those who are lawyers or legislators or some such being so effective and widely respected because of being the unquestioned supreme graduates of the law schools . . .
The reply was a very pointed statement amounting to Ah, No, that lot is the utter dregs of the law schools, the obvious third raters who just can’t do any better.
Of the really good law school graduates, they go and get made judges.
And of the preeminent graduates, the absolute first rank of all legal students, they become the law school professors.
Do we congratulate you on your posturing, there?
Well, we refrain from doing so to you.
Except, of course, that A) I would have to be posturing, and B) if I was, why refrain?!?!?!
Also related, new students at Reed College disrupt their own first lecture, a class on ancient Greece, with race-hustling theatre and denunciations of “white supremacy.” Having insulted staff and other students, and having spoiled the class for everyone, resulting in its abandonment, the self-satisfied ‘protestors’ want to be “given credit” for their activist “labour.”
new students at Reed College disrupt their own first lecture, a class on ancient Greece, with race-hustling theatre and denunciations of “white supremacy.”
Start expelling them and this crap will stop.
Start expelling them and this crap will stop.
Well, it’ll be interesting to see what consequences, if any, the students experience. And it holds up pretty well as an example of the default psychology of such things. There’s the casual arrogance of it all; the assumption that they know how “racist” the course will be before it even starts; the assumed superiority and regurgitated dogma; the utter disregard for everyone else, both staff and fellow students; and the expectation that they should be praised – and given class credit – for sabotaging other people’s work and other people’s learning.
It’s an illustration of how mediocrity and vanity can result in a kind of dumb malevolence.
Oh, and according to the students in this video, the masked thugs and sociopaths known as Antifa are a force for good and are merely trying to “educate” anyone who disagrees with them.
For those who missed it, here they are randomly “educating” some young women.
Also related, new students at Reed College disrupt their own first lecture,
Oh, dear.
Reed got my attention because an old friend of mine was extremely happy about his going there, and I’ve just dropped ‘im a note . . .
. . . ‘course on another hand, while he would have taken that course as well, he went into and still does physics.
Funny how it’s Napoleon who’s associated with the English phrase, while the Duke of Wellington has a French one: pour la canaille, la mitraille.
Canaille loses something when merely translated as ‘rabble’ or ‘mob’; perhaps ‘blackguards’.
Mitraille is grapeshot, but also evokes the mitrailleuse.
—
Surely a couple of AKs would be an even bigger advantage than a shield wall.
Which suggests the question isn’t one of remembering, it’s one of what they’re allowed to get away with.
And who is doing the allowing.
Crumbs of comfort, I know.
Here is another at least (my italics):
To explore the critical issue of the First Amendment on college campuses, during the second half of August I conducted a national survey of 1,500 current undergraduate students at U.S. four-year colleges and universities.
Given that Saturday 12 August saw the violence in Charlottesville – including the murder of Heather Heyer and the attempted murder of over many more by James Alex Fields Jr – then the timing of the survey “during the second half of August” was surely overwhelmingly likely to prejudice the views of respondents to a question such as ‘Does the First Amendment protect “hate speech”?’
the utter disregard for everyone else, both staff and fellow students; and the expectation that they should be praised
Interesting exchange here on the Reedies Against Racism Tumblr page between an anonymous student who complains that “Your protests are distracting me from learning the material that I paid to come here to college to learn” and Alex Boyd of RAR.
I confess to a touch of scepticism regarding the graffiti photographed under update 11/12 from the same Tumblr page here (need to scroll down a bit to see it).
The handwriting is so remarkably similar in all photos that it suggests the work of a single individual – which hardly supports the notion that “Anti blackness, racism, antisemitism, classism, ableism, homophobia, and cultural appropriation are still rampant” at the college.