Friday Ephemera
I’m not entirely sure what’s happening here. || Plaything of note. || Today’s word is ambition. || A searchable archive of old book illustrations. (h/t, Things) || The village of upside-down boat houses. (h/t, PiperPaul) || Premature greeting. || Snout patting of note. || “Something needed to be done.” || Scenes. || No, don’t thank me. || You’d never tire of this. || Continue the research. || The thrill of the circus. || The thrill of Tesco. || The thrill of mould. || Sounds of the forest and a nature sound map. (h/t, Things) || Struggle session detected. || When the circus comes to town. || Self-censoring font. || Found reading the book laborious, but anyway, this is coming. || Flamingos feed. || And finally, in fly-related news.
I don’t recall them being noticeably shorter.
They average less than 250 pages (minus the later coda). That’s shorter than his Latro novels, much shorter than Dune, and a hell of a lot shorter than the completed entries in George Martin’s folly.
There may be something to good editors who know when to say “No!”, and to authors who know when to listen.
They average less than 250 pages
Now you’ve forced me to look on the shelf: My first edition New Sun hardcovers are each about 300 pages, while my first edition Latro novels are each about 325 pages. Of course I must caution myself that a truly accurate comparison would be by word count, but I don’t think this conversation justifies that amount of sleuthing.
George Martin’s folly.
I found him almost unreadable even in his first, shorter novels. By the way, I never read the later Dune sequels. The last one I was able to finish was Children of Dune
There may be something to good editors who know when to say “No!”, and to authors who know when to listen.
Indeed, indeed. Gene was one of those writers who didn’t need such editing, to the best of my knowledge. (And I vaguely recall editor David Hartwell making comments to that effect.) An awful lot of writers do need strong editing of one sort or another. Some are horrible spellers or even dyslexic, others suffer from logorrhea, and so on.
I’m well past 16 & still enjoy science fiction. The ‘Golden Age’ is where you find it.
I must admit to being unable to identify a fascist theme in Starship Troopers.
California queen expounding on the fertility of wypipo.
California queen expounding on the fertility of wypipo.
We Wuz Kangs therefore she’s a queen?
Consider that there are fans who profess to be unable to see the fascist theme running through the movie Starship Troopers.
Which fans? Fans of the book hate the movie because it bears no resemblance to the book. Even the maker of the movie hated Heinlein’s book and that’s why they bought the title to slap on a straight-to-video script.
Which fans?
Sorry, I meant fans of the movie. I have met few fans of the book who do not hate the movie–although I have met some. And you are absolutely right: Paul Verhoeven hated the novel (although I hear he didn’t read more than a small part) and inserted the fascist tropes to criticize (misrepresent) the novel.
We Wuz Kangs therefore she’s a queen?
Cuz she can make all colors, donja know?
Here’s hoping she makes the permanent no-fly list.
Paul Verhoeven hated the novel…and inserted the fascist tropes to criticize (misrepresent) the novel.
Yeah, except he screwed up. He portrayed Rico, Rasczak et al as unabashedly confident, competent, firm but fair protagonists whose purpose (our species’ survival) was as noble as they come. IE, he made the “fascists” fucking awesome, and – given the stakes of the war – perfectly reasonable.
Cuz she can make all colors, donja know?
I don’t get that reference.
[ Rummages under bar, slyly opens canister of nitrous oxide. ]
Hahahaha Ha! Oh David you are so funny! LOL! ROFLMYO!
Stop waving that rag about! It just makes it funnier!
You’d never tire of this.
I thought I only needed an Atomic coffee maker. I was wrong.
“The thrill of Tesco.”
It’s amazing what foreign people will consider exotic and interesting, and I think we often fail to recognise that in Britain. Back in the ’90s, the Italians considered Rover the epitome of cool. There was even a cologne.
“Those with the asterisks really make the word look far more obscene after the censoring, don’t they?”
Not the best example (although Humph’s intro is typically hilarious), but it reminds me of this.
he made the “fascists” fucking awesome
Much the same problem as the “Harry Potter with guns” video. If you’re anti-gun, and you make a video that pretty much makes guns out to be amazing and hilarious, well, enjoy your own-goal?
I don’t get that reference.
It’s part of her rantings why all the inferior white people must make way for her. Her genes are dominant and she can make any color person in the world.
This is that weird Nation of Islam/Black Panther crap from the 60s.
Re “Starship Troopers”: I love the book and enjoyed the movie (titties in the shower, what’s not to love?). I love that the director hated the book and tried to sabotage it, but the characters won out anyway, especially since there was nothing about the bugs that indicated that the earthlings were at fault, and that, well, “what are you going to do?” (which is our catchphrase about situations in which your back is against the wall and sitting down with your enemies and singing “Kumbaya” will get your throat slit anyway.
At the same time, if we were in a pub and had a few pints, I’d love to hear someone’s digression about why ST the movie is fascist. Seriously. Film discussions are really entertaining. My wife and I just saw the Harry Potter movies, and the Dursley’s come off much better and more sympathetic in the films than the books. And Dumbledore lived down to his name for being the worst headmaster in Hogwarts’ history.
David Lynch’s film, the details of which also seem to have evaporated from memory, except for a general dislike, and a vague sense that its sentiment regarding messiahs seemed somewhat at odds with what I remembered, or misremembered, of the book.
Basically, David Lynch’s Flying! Worms! In! Spaaaaaaaaace!!! is definitely a totally Lynch all out screwup rather than an issue with Herbert. Quite entirely, it has as much to do with Herbert as Heinlein has to do with Random Bugs By Verhoeven . . .
Rather like David Lynch’s film
Much like Starship Troopers, the film bears little resemblance to the book and manages a Man of La Mancha level of inversion of the point of the original.
If you don’t like novels as a literary form I doubt Dune will change your mind, but judging the book y an inferior film adaptation seems…odd.
I’d love to hear someone’s digression about why ST the movie is fascist.
Broadly, the Terran Federation is portrayed as nationalistic, militaristic and jingoistic, and uses propaganda that the audience is supposed to recognize as Nazi-esque. The subtext is that we’re only seeing the propaganda, and the truth is much more sinister. Of course Verhoeven never shows us “the truth”, beyond clumsy and nonsensical scenes like the “why have the Mobile Infantry if you have nukes” bit, which just end up being campy and hilarious.
It’s fascist in the same way that anything Hollywood progs dislike is called fascist, regardless of what the word “fascist” actually means in political science.
but judging the book by an inferior film adaptation seems…odd.
I’m not doing that. I’m just noting that I didn’t enjoy either of them – and as we’ve both said, they seem to differ quite significantly. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that no-one could enjoy the book. Evidently, lots of people have. And good for them. I’m just saying I didn’t enjoy it, that I remember the prose being awful, and that I’m not an enthusiast of novels generally, largely because of the padding that novels tend to entail. It’s a preference on my part, an impatience; not an assertion of aesthetic profundity.
she can make any color person in the world.
Ah, I see now. Thanks. (And as a matter of fact I was not able to make out everything she said.)
This is that weird Nation of Islam/Black Panther crap from the 60s.
Which unfortunately is not extinct. But I suppose it gives losers something to be proud of.
Broadly, the Terran Federation is portrayed as nationalistic, militaristic and jingoistic, and uses propaganda that the audience is supposed to recognize as Nazi-esque.
Thanks for posting something before I could return to this thread. The movie even goes so far as to have Rico’s friend Carl show up in what we are supposed to recognize as a Gestapo outfit.
By the way, science fiction writers and critics (and even professors) have been branding Starship Troopers as fascistic ever since it was published. But they all resorted to creatively dishonest readings of the novel–which is what you expect from leftists.
There are some watchable YouTube videos, including this one by Sargon, putting forward the theory that ST delivers a strongly libertarian as opposed to a fascist message.
https://youtu.be/kVpYvV0O7uI
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that no-one could enjoy the book. Evidently, lots of people have. And good for them…
[lets out sigh of relief]
“…I’m just saying I didn’t enjoy it, that I remember the prose being awful…”
It certainly was not great. How about “varies between awful and servicable”?
“…and that I’m not an enthusiast of novels generally, largely because of the padding that novels tend to entail.”
Padding is a common sin, but it sounds like an overstatement to say that novels tend to this: Rather, the whole purpose of a novel is different than a short story: A short story has a simple plot, only a few themes, and a small cast of characters. A novel has a more complex plot (maybe a collection of interwoven plots), many themes, and a larger cast of characters. I tend to see padding when those additional elements do not add to the story but merely make it longer. (David, does your Correction Booth play endless loops from Game of Thrones?)
(David, does your Correction Booth play endless loops from Game of Thrones?)
Heh. The last couple of seasons, yes.
[lets out sigh of relief]
This is my softer, nurturing side. Enjoy it while it lasts.
This is my softer, nurturing side. Enjoy it while it lasts.
[ Attempts to feign indignation, fails. ]
Never having seen the movie I really can’t speak to it.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that no-one could enjoy the book. Evidently, lots of people have
I confess, I feel that way about LOTR. One of the few non-fiction trilogies my hubby has read and he loves it. I absolutely love the films but to this day haven’t gotten more than 1/3 the way into the first book.
Padding is a common sin,
IMHO the amount of padding increases as an author gets more “popular”. See: Stephen King. It’s like editors become too intimidated to do their job properly.
“I confess, I feel that way about LOTR. One of the few non-fiction trilogies my hubby has read and he loves it. I absolutely love the films but to this day haven’t gotten more than 1/3 the way into the first book.”
I first tried to read it at school after thoroughly enjoying The Hobbit, and for about 30 years I never got past page 23. I haven’t seen the films, but I did manage to make it to… well, possibly around page 23 of The Two Towers a year or two ago. Still can’t say I’m riveted though, and I haven’t even picked it up since.
But, as I always say (I think I wrote a whole post on it for Counting Cats), I fully appreciate the achievement of Tolkein’s detailed worldbuilding. I just don’t like the book very much.
One of the few non-fiction trilogies…
Um. Huge if true.
Huge if true.
We have Orcs living down the street. Their property is a mess, as you would expect.
J.K. Rowling also was infected with paddingitis (not to be confused with paddingtonitis, in which you turn into a soft, fuzzy bear, or at least the mind of one).
As for LOTR, I reread the trilogy recently and understood that I reached an age in which I had the patience to let myself slip into the prose, and enjoyed it very much. Even the Tom Bombadil section.
What struck me even more about LOTR was the overarching sadness that the age of magic was ending, and as the hobbits saw when Saurman came to the Shire that the Age of Man was going to become industrial and not a little grim. It helped that Tolkien romanticized the little buggers and their bucolic life in the countryside. They can eat bacon but not have to get their hands bloody slaughtering the pigs. They can get old but not have their teeth fall out (“two words: modern dentistry”). The Shire was bountiful and never had a failing harvest or resort to cannibalism to stay alive.
One of the few non-fiction trilogies
Yikes … not enough coffee before I wrote that. Clarity – husband doesn’t really read fiction much at all and certainly not anything approaching a series. LOTR is his one beloved exception.
Yikes
See, this is why I have to water down the drinks.
Regarding Dune, the thing that came to mind, oddly enough, was Doctor Who, in that the premise, the concept, and some of the ideas within it, are generally better than the execution – the thing that ends up on screen, or on the page. I think that’s sort of the point I’m trying to make.
Lots of people are stupid, left hand side of the bell curve don’tchaknow, and they need to occupy themselves somehow.
I read LotR while in my early teens and have returned to it a few times in adulthood. While still at school I also read The Silmarillion but, despite having a copy, have never attempted it again. I also have a copy of Unfinished Tales; it is so named for a reason.
Is it the time of year for inveighing against Lord of the Rings again? There are certain childhood favourites one reads as an adult and realises with regret what poor taste one had. But LOTR was never that way for me; I was bored by it even as a child. I kept on out of a general affection for fantasy and appreciation of The Hobbit – there Tolkien actually did write well.
There are certain childhood favourites one reads as an adult and realises with regret what poor taste one had.
I missed out on this by mostly raiding my parents’ bookshelves from an early age.
Of the few books I recall reading as a child that were actually written for younger audiences, the Tripods series stands out as holding up.
The paperback Lord of the Rings looked attractive when I was around 13 or 14, but I started reading it in the bookstore and, though I tried several times on repeated visits, I just knew I’d never finish the book, much less the trilogy. It was shelved near the Rider Haggards with the Frank Frazetta covers, and those I bought and devoured happily. Likewise the John Carter series by Burroughs, and eventually his Tarzans. I even enjoyed the low-level pulp of the Doc Savage books. This kind of novel for me has nothing to do with what some call “working out ideas” — it’s the joy of storytelling you can get good and lost in; fantastic adventures.
Enough of this nonsense about children’s books, Sinatra and Elvis.
However, for those of you who can’t break the comic book habit, a new Wonder Wxmyn DC comic.
I even enjoyed the low-level pulp of the Doc Savage books.
Holy Cow. I’ll be superamalgamated.
” Of the few books I recall reading as a child that were actually written for younger audiences, the Tripods series stands out as holding up.”
John Christopher’s Tripods! Very good stuff!
” This kind of novel for me has nothing to do with what some call “working out ideas” — it’s the joy of storytelling you can get good and lost in; fantastic adventures.”
Both have their place, but the pity of it is, Tolkien COULD be a good storyteller. He just lost his essential storyline somewhere amidst working out all the other details re: dwarves, orcs, elven languages, etc.
Hmmmm. Where’s the button for that sign over the bar???
Anyway . . .
Also available as a tattoo. See Big Sheila at the bar.
See Big Sheila at the bar.
I am afraid she is occupied at the moment.
Meanwhile, at the KFC there is a dispute at the counter.
Meanwhile, at the KFC there is a dispute at the counter.
The word that came to mind was landfill.
Up in Scotland, Robert the Bruce whirls in his grave like a runaway gyroscope.
Up in Scotland, Robert the Bruce whirls in his grave like a runaway gyroscope.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that based on his history of behavior and lack of accomplishment George Floyd had an IQ of 75 or less.